Powder dipper shape

[scottyp99]

Hi guys, I have begun making powder dippers from cartridge brass, and I am wondering if the shape of the donor cartridge has any bearing on the accuracy and/or repeatability of the dipper. In other words, will a tall thin cartridge like a 38 Special make a more accurate dipper than a short wide one like, say, a 45 acp?

Scotty

[bedbugbilly]

My off the cuff remark would be that volume is volume whether it is tall and skinny or short and squat.

I use straight walled casings - or fairly straight walled casings would be a better description - 45 acp, 9mm, 380 acp, 25 acp, 32 acp, etc. I have also used 38 Colt Short, Long and Special. The smallest I've used is a 22 Long Rifle case. All seem to work very well - the trick is in being "consistent" and checking with a scale often as different powders dip differently.

If you're new to using dippers . . . experiment with different cases and see what results you get and if they are consistent. I don't load to max loads - probably the best description would be I load to "the middle of the road" so a .1 go a grain is not a safety factor - if I was loading near max, I would be weighing them out.

I have a set of the "yellow" Lee dippers - why I bought it I don't know as I've only used several of the smaller ones. There was an earlier set that is red and my understanding is that the two different sets measure differently - based on some things I've read, not actual experience. I learned on my set of yellow dippers to not go by the chart that comes with them, but rather to play with them and weigh them out - long story short, my way of dipping may be different than your way of dipping. I much prefer to use dippers made out of cartridge casings as I've never had a problem with grains of powder clinging to the inside.

Practice and play with your dippers and that will tell you what is going to work best for you. I actually like using dippers when I'm batch loading - especially when I'm using my 310 dies and tongs. Kind of relaxing!

Good luck and let us know how they work out for you.

Jim

[GhostHawk]

I am less concerned about dipper shape, and more about handle attachment.

Some methods of attaching a handle can let a little pile of powder grains gather above where the handle attaches. Scoop deep one time and you can add half a grain. Scoop shallower and it won't.

For ease in construction a single wire is my most common method, and it is one of the worst for variability.

I think my best is a piece of scrap copper pointed at the top and soldered onto a .357mag case. I think the solder flow fills the spots where powder grains could gather. Leaves a smooth scalloped radius.

[mdi]

Depends on how you use them. If you just run the dipper backwards and allow the powder to fill the dipper, like Lee suggests, just about any shape will do. If you run the dipper through the powder, mouth first, a short squat shape (45 ACP) will give more consistent charges. Running a long thin dipper through powder mouth first will give heavier charges than the short dipper of the same volume (compressing powder). I played with dippers quite a bit a few years ago and found I could vary the charge by almost one and a half grains (W231 and/or Bullseye) by different dipping methods.

[bedbugbilly]

GhostHawk - you make a very good point! I much prefer to use rimless casings if I can as they have the extractor groove around the base. I use a section of stove pipe wire, bend it in the middle, wrap it around the base in the ejector groove and then twist with a pair of pliers until I have a handle about 4 inches or so of twisted wire. I then put a loop on the end of it. The wire handle is stiff enough to use and doesn't pick up any extra grains of powder that could increase the load.

I tried soldering brass handles some casings using brazing rod as the handle - it was more of a PIA than it was worth.

I use popsicle sticks for a variety of things and always have some on my bench. I got the bright idea of epoxy glueing the base of the cartridge case to the end of the stick - it worked well and the case was secure on the stick - BUT - it was the perfect example of which you speak. It picked up extra grains of powder and they quickly got tossed.

I keep looking for a common hardware item that could be used for handles that could be attached to the base of the casing. Something like a round rod - maybe up to a 1/8" diameter with a small loop on the end. My thought would be to drill the priming hole out and then use a small screw with nut to secure the handle to the base - something that wouldn't pick up grains of powder. Attach it to a casing that is a little oversize volume wise and then file the easing down to fit the charge needed. So far, I haven't spotted anything in a hardware that would work well.

mdi - I found the same thing - it all revolves around being "consistent" and using the same method for each measurment.

[243winxb]

Depends on the amount of powder. 25 acp up to 45acp.. Lees get wider and taller.

[Tom W.]

I had some red Lee dippers in a box that was gifted to me years ago. I also bought the yellow dippers and have used all but two of them. When loading my rifles I'll look at the slide chart, but still weigh each load. My pistol gets the powder measure.

I have made a scoop with twisted wire soldered to a brass case, but soon found that it was a PITA. I do use a .444 Marlin case for measuring black powder when I'm in the woods. At the range I'll use a "vintage" TC measure.

[scottyp99]

Thanks for the input, guys. I've only made one dipper so far, to scoop 10 grains of red dot for a reduced rifle load that I use a Lee Loader for. I made it from a 45 acp case, with a piece of coat hanger epoxied on as a handle. It works pretty well, but I want to make another one that will scoop 9 grains, and was considering using a 38 Special case for it.

scotty

[mdi]

Drop some epoxy in the 10 grain dipper to reduce it to 9 grains. I made a lot of dippers out of pneumatic hose ferrals. Final adjustments were reaming out the ID to make the capacity larger or dropping epoxy into the cavity to make it smaller (mostly trial and error)...

[scottyp99]

I thought about that, but then I wouldn't have a 10grain dipper anymore.


Scotty

[Camper64]

Scotty, MDI was referring to make another one using a 45 acp case and add epoxy to reduce it down to 9 grains and leave your existing 10 grain dipper alone.

[Tom W.]

Or make another and use your trimmer to bring the length down.....but use a different case, say a Nickel plated one for one and a plain brass one for the other.

[scottyp99]

Sounds like there's all kinds of ways to do it! Thanks for all the advice, guys, it sounds like I could just make up a batch of dippers using 45 acp cases, and instead of tedious trimming and filing, I could just customize each one using epoxy as the need arises. Simple, cheap, and effective.....I like it!

Scotty

[GhostHawk]

Epoxy, styrofoam trays, cardboard, whatever turns your crank.

That is a good idea about epoxying a handle on though.

[country gent]

The difference in powders dippers is in the bottom of them, flat bottomed or convex. How big a radius in the corner? As to handles a wire can be used with good results or a piece of thin brass sheet .015 -.020 thick, this can be wrapped snug around dipper body or soldered glued on. I form a loop on the end the dipper just presses into. AS to the concave bottom a dowel that fits snugly into the case can be formed into a concave waxed well and used with epoxy to form the conave base inside the dipper.

I believe technique is more important than the cavities shape is. I also prefer rimless cases for dipper bodies or even better hobby store brass tubing with a base disk cut in a shim punch This id soldered in place and the handle affixed. Then cleaned up and polished in the case polisher.

[dbosman]

I wish I could remember where, but, I read an article on powdered materials sampling that talked about shape and depth of the sampling cavity affecting accuracy of the sampling. If I remember correctly, the shape and size of the material grains affected wide and shallow vs narrow and deep.
I'd put a small cash bet that gun powder measure companies have that research somewhere.

[barrabruce]

I pour some lead into a case to get close to the mark then use a tight fitting drill to final adjust.
Much easier to correct that way.
I solder some gal wire to the case and file marks in it for dip weigh.
^^ ^^^^^ =2.5

[Bullwolf]

I made this dipper out of a trimmed 32 S&W case...

But I used JB weld epoxy, instead of solder to attach both the wire and the handle to the case.



The wire is a piece of arc welding rod that I peeled the coating from, and the handle is a short piece of wooden dowel from a disposable foam paint brush, coated with Birchwood Casey Tru-Oil for finish.

It's still together today, probably because I cleaned & degreased the trimmed 32 S&W case with denatured alcohol, before I applied the epoxy to it.

Lots of different ways to maker a dipper.



- Bullwolf

[higgins]

Maybe to attach the handle, decap the case, bend a 90-degree into the wire handle long enough for it to go into the flash hole, and fill the primer pocket with epoxy. I've never done it, but it seems like it would work.

[44magLeo]

I think Lee did a lot of research on what width to depth ratio works best for most powders. I tend to make dipper that approximate that ratio.
I to have tried several ways to attach handles. I now use a coat hanger. A piece about 8 or so inches long, bent around to form a wide loop with the ends almost touching. I then epoxy the cartridge case to the narrow end of the bent coat hanger.
On Lee's plastic dippers, to get them static free I slosh them around in my dish water when washing dishes. Don't rinse off, let air dry. This leaves a soap film on the plastic that is static free. I do the same on all my plastic powder handling equipment.
Leo