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Thread: 32acp loads with 75-77 grain cast with modern powders...

  1. #1
    Boolit Master mattw's Avatar
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    32acp loads with 75-77 grain cast with modern powders...

    I have recently had a CZ70 follow me home, really like it but it shoots most factory ammo quite poorly. I think 2 things are in play, bullet diameters are to large on US ammo and velocity is to low on most ammo. I have been working with the Missouri Cowboy #18 bullet sized down to .310 and have tested W231, Red Dot and Titegroup. It seems that I need to target about 975 fps for accuracy to really increase. I have found that 2.1 grains of titegroup with the bullet seated to the top edge of the top driving band works very well. Of the 3, Titegroup also burns the cleanest and most completely. I do still have little bits that are left, not sure if it is burnt or not.

    I would like to find a suitable load for Power Pistol and Zip, both should work well and will meter in the ball park. Each charge is weighed as this little guy has such a tight charge range. I have though about starting with 1.5 to 1.7 grains of each and working up over the chronograph and watching primers, but thought I would ask here first. And yes, I did search and have found most of the data here that I have tried or currently use. This place is a great resource.

    Thanks Matt

  2. #2
    Boolit Master

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    Don't have that caliber, but CFE pistol has proven very effective in 380 for me. Higher velocity and moderate recoil and report for a given velocity than several others I have tried. Charge weights are also higher due to density than some and it meters very well (flattened ball shape)
    "In God we trust, in all others, check the manual!"

  3. #3
    Boolit Master Outpost75's Avatar
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    Have not used Power Pistol or Zip.

    Have had good results in .32 ACP with Unique, HP38, Bullseye, AutoComp and #2400.

    A data summary:

    .32 ACP Hand Loads Min. OAL 0.945”

    “Group 1” Loads which don’t exceed factory energy, suitable as a "steady diet" for use in Tomcat and Keltec pistols:

    Ammunition ________________Beretta Tomcat 2.4”____Beretta M1935 3.4”

    Acc. 31-077B 2.5 HP38___________810, 12 Sd____________n/f
    Acc. 31-077B LD#00 2.0 TiteGroup__790, 12 Sd____________893, 19 Sd
    Acc. 31-077B LD#0 2.2 Bullseye____757, 16 Sd____________932, 24 Sd
    Acc. 31-077B LD#1 2.5 Bullseye____835, 16 Sd____________956, 18 Sd
    Acc. 31-077B LD#0 3.0 AutoComp__837, 10 Sd____________957, 16 Sd

    Acc.31-090B LD#00 2.5 AutoComp__729, 11 Sd___________833, 6 Sd

    Acc. 31-095T LD#00 1.7 Bullseye_____640, 11 Sd_________729, 9 Sd
    Acc. 31-095T LD#00 2.5 AutoComp___741, 25 Sd_________840, 6 Sd
    Acc. 31-095T LD#6 5.2 #2400_______750, 17 Sd________874, 13 Sd
    Acc. 31-095T 2.3 grains HP38________n/f_______________811, 21 Sd

    “Group 2” Loads which exceed “average factory energy” for use in steel frame pistols only

    Ammunition ___________________Beretta M1935 3.4”
    Accurate 31-077B 5.9 #2400______957 fps, 15 Sd
    Acc.31-077B LD#7 5.6 #2400_____998, 22 Sd
    Acc. 31-077B LD#4 3.0 Unique____1067 fps, 19 Sd

    Acc. 31-087T LD#0 3.0 AutoComp_962, 19 Sd
    Acc. 31-087T LD#7, 5.6 #2400____926, 14 Sd

    Acc. 31-090B LD#0, 2.2 Bullseye__851, 14 Sd
    Acc. 31-090B 2.3 grains HP38____839, 16 Sd
    Acc. 31-090B 2.5 grain Unique____901, 33 Sd
    Acc. 31-090B LD#00 2.0 Titegroup__902, 16 Sd
    Acc. 31-090B LD#0, 3.0 AutoComp_999, 14 Sd
    Acc. 31-090B LD#6, 5.2 #2400____878, 20 Sd
    Acc. 31-090V LD#7 5.6 #2400_____904, 20 Sd
    Acc. 31-095T LD#0 3.0 AutoComp__914, 15 Sd

    Hdy 85XTP.312” LD#0 3.0 AutoComp__976, 8 Sd
    Hdy 90XTP.309” LD#0 3.0 AutoComp__968, 17 Sd
    Nor 93FMJ .307” LD#0 3.0 AutoComp__933, 11 Sd
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  4. #4
    Boolit Master mattw's Avatar
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    Outpost75, I already have all of your data in my spreadsheet! I just happen to have both of those powders around and was hoping someone had already tried them. I may get it done in the next few weeks.

  5. #5
    Boolit Master
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    I load for the 32 acp. I have 1942 HSC Mauser. It's a nice little pistol, mostly a safe queen. My current load is the Lyman 311252, using WW, @ 79gr, with 2.3 gr Titegroup @ .975 oal. Bore is .309, but bullets sized to .311. I am averaging 950 fps using mixed brass. Gun shoots to point of aim, and running the steel plate rack at 50 feet is child's play. The hardest thing is to see the tiny front sight. I made a shell catcher from netting and PVC pipe. Makes recovery of brass easy, no matter what gun I shoot.

    Ed Harris, from the CBA, who I believe, originally compiled the data listed in an above post, recommended switching to a .380 recoil spring also, if you pistol came in both .32 and .380 when the group 2 loads are used. Ed also liked the heavier cast bullets in the .32, especially the truncated ones for SD use. Despite all the HP ammo available for this caliber, most pundits believe penetration is more important than expansion in these small calibers.
    Last edited by GBertolet; 07-25-2018 at 04:42 PM.

  6. #6
    Boolit Master mattw's Avatar
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    I have not found a good replacement recoil spring yet... Did order a Wolfe PP spring, close but ID is really to big. I ordered the 15# 380 one, it does work well but does not fit the little shroud on the barrel by the chamber properly. Would you post up a pic of your brass catcher? I have a few that just spew brass. My 2.1 of titegroup behind a 77-78 grain cast is running an average of 946 with my 3.8 inch barrel. Mid 900's really makes the CZ70 shoot more accurately. That is in mixed Euro brass.

    I am waiting on a spare ejector, then I may try a little tuning. Don't want to mess with the original, could make it not work at all!

  7. #7
    Boolit Master
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    Weather is crappy here right now. When it breaks I will get pictures for you of the shell catcher. Our velocities are pretty close for the similar bullets. I had one round that was considerably lower in velocity than the rest during my chronograph session. Excluding that one, I would have been around 970 fps for the average, for 2.3 gr Titegroup. Quite a potent little load.

  8. #8
    Boolit Master Outpost75's Avatar
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    I have over the years accumulated various small lots of WW2 German, French, Polish, Czech, Italian and postwar Combloc stuff from Romania, Hungary, etc. Most came from diplomatic security sources and CID before the wall came downwas shot up testing at gov't labs for threat assessment. Chronographing the 1940s Euro stuff lead core 73-77 grain bullets all go 950-1000 fps from a 3.4-3.5" barrel and the 1950s-60s Cold War era Vz61 Scorpion 71 grain steel core Factory 84 and SBP loads run 1200+ fps. Best reason in the world to wear something better than a IIa vest if you are on the job.
    Last edited by Outpost75; 07-25-2018 at 08:07 PM.
    The ENEMY is listening.
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  9. #9
    Boolit Master mattw's Avatar
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    Outpost, I know that it makes tiny holes... but I sure would hate to have 6-8 of those holes in me. A Kel-tec P32 followed me home tonight, could not resist the price! This will not get the good loads, but I am sure it will handle mid 800's. I have to find out what the bore diameter is on another one now!

  10. #10
    Boolit Master Outpost75's Avatar
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    Any of the Group 1 loads with bullets sized .309-.311 should work in your, Keltec.
    The ENEMY is listening.
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  11. #11
    Boolit Master
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    Here are two pictures of my shell catcher, front and back. It cost about $65 to make. I originally used cheap camo turkey blind netting, but UV light wrecked it after a few years. I now have koi pond netting, which is much heavier, and more expensive. I bring the catcher in for the winter, so the ice and snow doesn't damage it. The cats think it's a hammock.

    If anyone wants dimensions, or more detailed photos, I can do that.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by GBertolet; 07-26-2018 at 12:52 PM.

  12. #12
    Boolit Master mattw's Avatar
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    Thanks for the pics. If you could pass on more info, I may have to build one of those. My back is shot and the kids are not always around to clean off the tarp.

  13. #13
    Boolit Master Texas by God's Avatar
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    I like to park my pickup so the brass lands in the bed. I lay a blanket over the back glass if I'm shooting a battle rifle. Your catcher looks great!

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

  14. #14
    Boolit Master RU shooter's Avatar
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    I too just got a keltec , question I have is since it's a locked breach pistol wouldn't it by design be able to deal with hotter rounds than blow back designs like the tomcat or other blow back actions ? I don't plan on reloading for it just curious ?
    If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck!

  15. #15
    Boolit Master Outpost75's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RU shooter View Post
    I too just got a keltec , question I have is since it's a locked breach pistol wouldn't it by design be able to deal with hotter rounds than blow back designs like the tomcat or other blow back actions ? I don't plan on reloading for it just curious ?
    With very heavy loads the plastic Keltec frame spreads open and dislodges the takedown pin so that the gun self-disassembles.

    And the litte gun is harder to hold onto, and you may get slide bite.
    The ENEMY is listening.
    HE wants to know what YOU know.
    Keep it to yourself.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check