Making my own single stage press ...

[BlackRat]

Having a lathe is truly amazing. I started with a 7x12, then 8x12, and this PM12x36 now for almost 10years. I use it to make things, fix things, make tools, etc..



Thank you. It has been fun and a great learning experience. I am noticing how heavy the assembled press is to move around, so I decided to check the weight. As is, with no linkages/handle, it is close to 27-1/2 pounds.

Just a quick warning..... Once you have a lathe things will change and for good or for worse, you will start thinking about getting a milling machine... then a surface grinder... after a while a TIG welder and the madness will never end! (don't ask me how I know)

But it's so worth it!!!!!

[jmorris]

Ahh, OK, I do see it now. So simple

I try to be like water and find the easiest way out.

[Walter Laich]

after seeing all this my ability to hammer a nail without bending it 8 out of 10 times pales in comparison

[wquiles]

I try to be like water and find the easiest way out.

Nothing wrong with doing it the easy way - thanks again

I am not done, but today I was able to do a little bit of work. My initial hole in the ram was 3/8", but I am going to go with a 1/2" bolt instead. I got the ram lined up with the original hole, and enlarged it to 1/2":




I then measured how much to take on both sides (inside of the clevis), to give me enough clearance for some delrin bushings (which I will make later), and came up with about 0.185" on each side, which I proceeded to mill away:




Once I finished I used the same 1/2" mill to "index" the ram to do the other side. Not "exactly" perfectly indexed 180deg, but really, really close:




I was shooting for slightly under 1" wide:






De-bur those really sharp edges by hand:

[wquiles]

Using the 1/2" mill to show alignment(I don't have the grade 8 bolt yet), here is how it looks now:







Following jmorris' advice, I still have to make the fitted steel spacers for the 1/2" bolt to fit inside of the clevis' two holes, the delrin spacers, etc., so I hope to work on those soon.

Will

[BigEyeBob]

I must admit I am 100% spoiled with the DRO's. I got one on my knee mill (Enco 8x28, I think), and my lathe PM12x36. They certainly make life easier and I can concentrate more on the task at hand than on counting revolutions by hand and remembering everything in my head

I checked out the lazer pointers ,but whoa .$275 here in Australia ,but none available .There are some on Eeeekbay in the UK ,but again around the $275 mark plus post. The UK site has ones that project a fine red cross ,or circles ,which would also be helpful . Anyway its not a must have for me ,I might wait until I get some spare cash ,if there is such a thing .

[wquiles]

I checked out the lazer pointers ,but whoa .$275 here in Australia ,but none available .There are some on Eeeekbay in the UK ,but again around the $275 mark plus post. The UK site has ones that project a fine red cross ,or circles ,which would also be helpful . Anyway its not a must have for me ,I might wait until I get some spare cash ,if there is such a thing .

Wow. I bought mine 8-10 years ago, so I have no idea how much I paid for it, but they go now for $125 ($165 for the crosshair or the concentric circle):
https://lasercenteredgefinder.com/pr...-12-shank-dot/

Even Amazon has it for $125 plus shipping:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...oop_bw_c_x_1_w

If you are interested send me a PM as I am more than willing to buy one and ship to you - it will certainly be way under $275!

Will

[jmorris]

still have to make the fitted steel spacers for the 1/2" bolt to fit inside of the clevis' two holes

You might be able to buy two more flanged oil-lite bushings with the right ID/OD and just press them into the clevis.

[BigEyeBob]

Wow. I bought mine 8-10 years ago, so I have no idea how much I paid for it, but they go now for $125 ($165 for the crosshair or the concentric circle):
https://lasercenteredgefinder.com/pr...-12-shank-dot/

Even Amazon has it for $125 plus shipping:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...oop_bw_c_x_1_w

If you are interested send me a PM as I am more than willing to buy one and ship to you - it will certainly be way under $275!

Will

Amazon US no longer deals with Australian customers ,the zGovt here has changed to goods and services tax to include items under 1000Aud .Amazon decided it didnt want to collect the GST for the Australian Govt .There is an Australian Amazon ,but the product range is very sparse ,apparently Australians dont need the same products as our American brothers.I can order from the link you posted ,but the exchange rate between the USDollar and our cowpie dollar is pretty wide .Thanks for the offer I really appreciate it , zI will wait and see how the exchange rate goes over the next few months .

[wquiles]

Amazon US no longer deals with Australian customers ,the zGovt here has changed to goods and services tax to include items under 1000Aud .Amazon decided it didnt want to collect the GST for the Australian Govt .There is an Australian Amazon ,but the product range is very sparse ,apparently Australians dont need the same products as our American brothers.I can order from the link you posted ,but the exchange rate between the USDollar and our cowpie dollar is pretty wide .Thanks for the offer I really appreciate it , zI will wait and see how the exchange rate goes over the next few months .

Gotcha. Do let me know if I can assist.

You might be able to buy two more flanged oil-lite bushings with the right ID/OD and just press them into the clevis.

Good idea, but goes against my frugal mantra for this project, given that I have perfect cut-off's from the 4140 steel rods that I can machine into shape.

I started by getting the 1/2" grade 8 bolts:






Then using the cut-offs to make the new bushings in the lathe:

[wquiles]

The finished busing matched my original paper design close enough:




With both of them done:






Then use a left-over piece of delrin to make the spacers:

[wquiles]

I am using a very sharp and very delicate PCD insert for the delrin:




Didn't bother with a drill bit - used the same spotting drill which is 1/2":




They are a little bit on the "thin" side, but it does allow for a little movement side-to-side:

[wquiles]

Here the ram has the RCBS ram prime shell holder (and I got a Lee universal de-priming die on the top):






Here you can see the original design goal of 6" of travel fairly well:




However, and here is my first design "problem": Once I account for the shell holding adapter, and the die space bellow the top plate, I only really have about 5.150" of actual, useful travel:




BUT, the ram's travel is still 6", which means I have to deal with how to stop the ram (some sort of mechanical stop) to keep the ram travel to 5" or so. The "solution" would have been to make the two support/guide rods about an inch longer - pretty easy in fact now that I realize this, but it is something I missed in my original design. I have to see if I still have enough scrap steel to make two new support/guide rods from scratch. Now you know why I told myself this was more of a prototype and why I didn't want to buy new steel for this project



So here is how the press looks like right now (this is the view of the back of the press):






Ok, so I still have a "lot" to work on:
- Ram mechanical stop: A simple 1" steel block between the bottom of the clevis and the top of the cylinder will accomplish this, so I am not too worried at the moment. I am deciding to have a stop on the way down, so that the top of the ram's movement will be always top-dead-center, which is of course critical for reloading (all of my presses have a mechanical stop in the linkages to ensure a consistent top-dead-center).

- Buy the remaining parts for the air-over-oil hydraulic system.

- Assemble and test the air-over-oil system.

- Figure out a "solid" method of attaching the ram to the cylinder, and account for potential flex. The cylinder is a good 20 pounds or so, which along with the nearly 30 pounds from the press is a lot of weight to simply "hang" from any table. I am considering making a portable stand to which everything would be bolted/welded. I have "lots" of steel to use, but of course this is a project on its own which will take lots of time.

- Surface treatment for all steel parts. Right now planning on doing cold bluing, which I have used many times in previous projects. I am probably going to do that one really soon while I work on the other stuff above to prevent rust while the press waits for next steps.



Will

[jmorris]

I don’t like to run bolts in double shear like this, I would get one with a longer shank so the smooth (also stronger and larger diameter of the shank) is in both bushings. If you don’t like the extra threads sticking out, cut them off. You can also get aircraft fasteners that are made “right” but they are not as cheap.

[gunwonk]

I checked out the lazer pointers ,but whoa .$275 here in Australia ,but none available .There are some on Eeeekbay in the UK ,but again around the $275 mark plus post. The UK site has ones that project a fine red cross ,or circles ,which would also be helpful . Anyway its not a must have for me ,I might wait until I get some spare cash ,if there is such a thing .

Wow. I bought mine 8-10 years ago, so I have no idea how much I paid for it, but they go now for $125 ($165 for the crosshair or the concentric circle):
https://lasercenteredgefinder.com/pr...-12-shank-dot/

Even Amazon has it for $125 plus shipping:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...oop_bw_c_x_1_w

If you are interested send me a PM as I am more than willing to buy one and ship to you - it will certainly be way under $275!

Will

Amazon US no longer deals with Australian customers ,the zGovt here has changed to goods and services tax to include items under 1000Aud .Amazon decided it didnt want to collect the GST for the Australian Govt .There is an Australian Amazon ,but the product range is very sparse ,apparently Australians dont need the same products as our American brothers.I can order from the link you posted ,but the exchange rate between the USDollar and our cowpie dollar is pretty wide .Thanks for the offer I really appreciate it , I will wait and see how the exchange rate goes over the next few months .

Well (ahem), how about this from Amazon.au?

https://www.amazon.com.au/Ultra-Reac...dp/B07D554SG1/

Yes, it's basically a cat toy.

I'd chuck it up, try to figure out a way to hold down the switch button (hose clamp?), and spin it with the laser on. (FWIW, it doesn't have to spin very fast.)

Disclaimer: I have near zero machining cred -- perhaps I have just demonstrated this beyond any doubt -- and I'm assuming (*ss U etc.) that the way the laser centering device works is to put its laser dot right down the axis of the chuck, with about $100 of the price being to get everything straight.

So get something cheaper, and spin it. Usual precautions, plus it's a laser, etc.

[wquiles]

[img]I don’t like to run bolts in double shear like this, I would get one with a longer shank so the smooth (also stronger and larger diameter of the shank) is in both bushings. If you don’t like the extra threads sticking out, cut them off. You can also get aircraft fasteners that are made “right” but they are not as cheap.

Thank you much. I will buy a new bolt today at Lowes


I extended the cylinder the full 6" and checked how much space I need for things. Assuming a couple of inches on the bottom for the attachment point, I would need about 29" to the top of the bench:





I checked on my reloading bench, and I have just enough space, so I removed the Lee turret press and temporarily clamped it in place:



I installed the right shell holder for 308, and this is how things look like with a 308 case in place:




I hope to start cutting some steel for welding a frame to tie the press to the cylinder.

Will

[Catshooter]

I've never heard of air-over-hydraulic. Anyone have a link I could check out?


Thanks.


Cat

[wquiles]

I've never heard of air-over-hydraulic. Anyone have a link I could check out?


Thanks.


Cat

These are the links I posted earlier in this thread:

1) Main discussion on using air power for swaging, which also gets into the advantages of air-over-air: start reading on "Pneumatic Pressure" in bold:
http://www.swage.com/ebooks/tb-4.htm


2) And here is a commercial air-over-oil tank:
http://www.fabco-air.com/pdf/Sec_9.pdf


Will

[ulav8r]

Something that may not have shown up in the air over oil links(I only looked at the fabcolink), the air over oil can provide added power over an air only system. If the air cylinder is larger than the oil cylinder, it will increase the pressure in the oil system. For example, it the air cylinder piston area is twice as large as the area of the oil cylinder piston, the oil pressure will be twice the air pressure applied. Also, the system can provide greater power as the active cylinder size is increased. An example of this: if the air cylinder piston has an area of 36 square inches, the oil piston has an area of six square inches, and the actuating cylinder has an area of 36 square inches, the system force at 100 psi of air pressure is-> 100psi * 36 in sq/6 in sq *36 in sq. =21,600 pounds of force on the actuating cylinder.

In that example the 100 pounds per squar inch of air pressure results in 600 psi in the oil system that is applied to the actuating cylinder. Because the actuating cylinder is larger that the oil cylinder, the oil cylinder will have six time the length of travel compared to the actuating cylinder.

[jmorris]

As the OP is in DFW Imight suggest he call/go to a place in Richardson called CDC Products. No idea if they still have them but I had to get one just because. Anyhow they had a number of 6” diameter pneumatic rams for cheap. I made one into a can crusher but it would be pretty easy to turn it into what the OP is looking for.





I also have some air over hydraulic actuators that I used for hydraulic clamping of parts for machining. They can produce thousands of PSI, hydraulically, from 90 PSI pneumaticly. Why I said earlier that the cylinder the OP is using could destroy most reloading presses.