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Thread: Making my own single stage press ...

  1. #21
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    Guys,

    Money is of course important, but not the main consideration for me. It is in fact like Randy said - it is about the project; what I will learn through it, how it will teach me new things, or refine the few things I know, etc.. I usually strive not to just duplicate something, but try to improve it, or make (whatever it is) more suitable for how I plan on using it. Even if it will "cost" me lots of time, I usually prefer to make something than buy something, if my equipment and skills are up to it. I absolutely hate the idea of paying for somebody to do or make something for me that I "could" make, but I also recognize my limitations and still end up buying where is makes sense to me.

    In fact I already own (all bought new):
    - Rock Chucker, which I use for some operations, including cast bullet sizing with the Lee push through dies.
    - Lee 4x die turret press that I use the most, and
    - Dillon 550b which I use for some handgun rounds:








    There are things I don't like about each one of them bullet presses, so part of my goal with this project is to try to incorporate some of the ideas/improvements I wish for. As a home machinist, I absolutely hate how much play there is in all of these off-the-shelf, mass-produced presses, so trying for something with less play, better alignment would be a nice by-product of making my own. I also hate that most of the presses are "fixed", with very little adjustment, regardless of whether I am using them for sizing or making rounds. Even if it does not make any difference in the quality/concentricity of the ammo, "I" would feel better being something "I" designed and built, and it will hopefully have some adjustability to make it more versatile to use. I am sure it will be a fun project to learn more about machining, welding, hydraulics, etc..


    I guess I am "weird" like that on everything I do, including other hobbies, like LED flashlights - just a few of those prior projects/guides here:
    http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/...ial&highlight=

    http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/...hts&highlight=

    http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/...ost&highlight=

    http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/...ack&highlight=




    Lastly, I like the single step reloading (Lee or Rock Chucker), but as I get older I am getting tired of swinging the press' arm, so I want to make this press so that I can use it with a hydraulic system with it. I of course considered for several weeks a retrofit of an existing press, but decided on a design variant of the thread I referenced in my first post, and instead of a retrofit, I am designing the hydraulic capability from day one. Even though swaging is not my "current" goal, I did research a lot about how much construction and how much PSI "power" I would need if I wanted the setup to be able to swage metal, and came up with a massive 4" diameter piston (about $80 shipped) - that is a 6" ruler for reference:
    http://www.swage.com/ebooks/tb-4.htm




    By the way, the good people from Amazon brought me the replacement pump - already installedI and ready to go



    I hope to continue making slow progress this coming weekend
    Will
    Last edited by wquiles; 07-27-2018 at 04:26 PM.

  2. #22
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    ya I understand. theres a lot of pride in accomplishing something like that. By the way my son in law is a diesel mechanic and is in the middle of the same project you got there. Hes got a 68cj and the diesel is already sitting on the frame of his. I forgot what it is but I think it was a 4 cyl cummings but don't hold me to it. Came out of some kind of delivery truck
    Quote Originally Posted by W.R.Buchanan View Post
    Lloyd: It doesn't have anything to do with the money. It's all about the project.

    I'm building a entire Jeep from scratch. and I mean from scratch. I couldn't, and still can't, buy a Jeep with a Diesel engine in it, even though they have been promising it for 20 years +.

    The only Jeep part on this vehicle is the Grill! I built the entire drive train, frame and undercarriage. Body is Fiberglass. It has A/C, Yukon Denali Seats and is close to being driveable.

    I could have probably bought a new Jeep and swapped in a diesel with all the necessary mods for what I've got in this project. Practicality has about as much to do with it as not "needing" a new gun. But you still buy it!

    But it wouldn't be this Jeep! This one will last me and whomever buys it from me for the rest of our lives. I try to build things so I don't ever have to work on them again. Sometimes I get it right.

    Sorry for the Hijack but I know exactly where the OP is coming from, and I already did the reloading press project.

    Good luck on your project and we'll need to see finished pics when done. I know where you're coming from, and you're doin' good!

    Randy

  3. #23
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    That is the source for most of these engines. Mine came out of a Doritos Van.

    Randy
    "It's not how well you do what you know how to do,,,It's how well you do what you DON'T know how to do!"
    www.buchananprecisionmachine.com

  4. #24
    Boolit Grand Master jmorris's Avatar
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    With the 4” cylinder at operating pressure you could destroy any reloading press you could buy.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmorris View Post
    With the 4” cylinder at operating pressure you could destroy any reloading press you could buy.
    Yes, definitely possible. I have to admit I am a little bit worried, being my first such project. I have been planning, studying this since about Q1 of this year, but I am not yet sure which way I will go. I am planning on an adjustable 1-to-1 and 2-to-1 ratio (cylinder/ram movement) positions, which would also double the force of the cylinder. The cylinder has 6" of travel (which explains the 6" of ram travel in my design) when operating in a 1-to-1 mode. In 2-to-1 mode, the 6" of cylinder travel will result in 3" of ram travel, which will be convenient for reloading handgun ammo, some "shorter" rifle ammo, bullet sizing, etc..

    Since trying to use stuff at hand is a self-imposed criteria for the project, and since I have 260 gallons of air storage attached to my 2-stage 5HP Quincy compressor, at this point my intent is to use pressurized air with flow/speed control valves/limiters.

    As most probably know, once you pressurize the cylinder with compressed air, the cylinder "flies" to the other end almost instantly, which is not quite the behavior I want for my press. So besides the flow/speed control valves, I am also considering an air/oil system such as this one. I looked into bare components, tube wall thickness, etc. to make my own, but it sounds a little complicated and expensive - hence why I think I will try with compressed air first:
    http://www.fabco-air.com/pdf/Sec_9.pdf

    Will

  6. #26
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    Air over hydraulics works quite well. I used to build industrial metal cutting bandsaws and the cheaper models ran on air. Using a simple presurized reservoir of oil and a flow control valve powered the cut ram for a smooth and speed adjustable cut. Air returned the cylinder and pushed the oil back into the res.
    "In God we trust, in all others, check the manual!"

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by jcren View Post
    Air over hydraulics works quite well. I used to build industrial metal cutting bandsaws and the cheaper models ran on air. Using a simple presurized reservoir of oil and a flow control valve powered the cut ram for a smooth and speed adjustable cut. Air returned the cylinder and pushed the oil back into the res.
    I would please like to hear more about your experience with the air over oil systems. The PDF I mentioned earlier, under the notes section shows a top and also a bottom baffle, a fill port, drain port, and of course the air flow and oil flow ports:
    http://www.fabco-air.com/pdf/Sec_9.pdf

    I though that since the piston has a volume of about 1/3 of a gallon, a simple 1 gallon compressed air tank would suffice by drilling and welding the extra ports; but I am not sure about the need/requirement for the baffles?

  8. #28
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    I think operating a reloading press with hydraulic power provided by some sort of valving mechanism will remove all "feel" from the operation, leading to disastrous results with the cases being resized, loaded, etc. If you design for a 500 pound ram force, that is what you will get no matter if the sizing die is slipping down over the case properly or crushing it. My suggestion is to use a "Port-a-Power" style hand operated hydraulic ram that is hand operated, providing a certain "feel" of the progression of the press through its reloading stages. A double action "Port-a-Power" could be built with another hydraulic cylinder attached with two lines with snap couplers so you cold reverse the direction of your power stroke, and maybe have a "loading lever" with several attachment points from its base pivot so you could in effect "gear up or gear it down" for different speeds of operation or force applied at the press.

  9. #29
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    Awesome project .. Wish I have the equipment and time to do project along that scale
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  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by DonMountain View Post
    I think operating a reloading press with hydraulic power provided by some sort of valving mechanism will remove all "feel" from the operation, leading to disastrous results with the cases being resized, loaded, etc. If you design for a 500 pound ram force, that is what you will get no matter if the sizing die is slipping down over the case properly or crushing it. My suggestion is to use a "Port-a-Power" style hand operated hydraulic ram that is hand operated, providing a certain "feel" of the progression of the press through its reloading stages. A double action "Port-a-Power" could be built with another hydraulic cylinder attached with two lines with snap couplers so you cold reverse the direction of your power stroke, and maybe have a "loading lever" with several attachment points from its base pivot so you could in effect "gear up or gear it down" for different speeds of operation or force applied at the press.
    Well said, as I also agree there is risk with the way I am moving forward. Although there will be no tactful feel/feedback in this project except for visual & sound, I am trying to compensate a little by using the air/oil system, so that I can slow down the ram movement enough that I "could" stop at the earliest sign of trouble. I will proceed cautiously, and I look forward to learn from this project.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by wquiles View Post
    I would please like to hear more about your experience with the air over oil systems. The PDF I mentioned earlier, under the notes section shows a top and also a bottom baffle, a fill port, drain port, and of course the air flow and oil flow ports:
    http://www.fabco-air.com/pdf/Sec_9.pdf

    I though that since the piston has a volume of about 1/3 of a gallon, a simple 1 gallon compressed air tank would suffice by drilling and welding the extra ports; but I am not sure about the need/requirement for the baffles?
    I don't think baffling would be necessary on a vertical stationary system. The pressure reservoir we used was just a simple fabricated aluminum cylinder with a clear tubing sight tube to monitor oil level. Cylinder was filled about 3/4 full to prevent foaming and splashing and a pressure regulated air supply fed to the port in the top cap adjusted cut pressure by pushing oil out a port in the bottom cap that ran through the flow control valve (one way restricted, reverse open flow) and to the rear of the ram. Air fed to the front of the ram returned the oil when the pressure was released from the reservoir. The air valve was a 3-way type that dumped air from one line when pressure was applied to the other. Very simple system and since the reservoir can be mounted virtually anywhere, fairly compact.

    My old phone with pics died and I can't find anything in the net showing the air system, but these were Hemsaw v100l machines which sold for $20,000 plus, so i figure if they needed baffles, they would have had them.
    Last edited by jcren; 07-27-2018 at 12:24 PM.
    "In God we trust, in all others, check the manual!"

  12. #32
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    Awesome, thanks. I ordered the 1Gallon air tank, and the flow control valve today so that I can start looking at logistics for mounting, etc.. Given the weight/bulk I am "considering" making this a stand-alone "mini bench", with wheels, so that I can move/relocate when in use. I will buy hoses, adapters, etc. later on as I get closer.

  13. #33
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    Sadly, I don't even recognize some of the tools you are using in your project

    Again....WOW !!!

  14. #34
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    With the new coolant pump I resumed work today. Started by parting the first rod to approx. 7.5":






    Then spot drill, drill, and partially thread:




    First rod almost ready:





  15. #35
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    Then start on the second rod:





    Look identical to the naked eye, but they are not "exactly" the same length:







    I marked them, and I need to go back later and trim them to match as close to each other as possible, so that the top plate (that holds the die) is perfectly aligned with the ram.

    I also noted that the surface finish on these rods was not that great, so I put a new insert in the tool - here is a close-up of the cutting edge and the chip breaker:

  16. #36
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    With a new insert, I started work on the ram itself. The bottom side will be threaded 3/8" like the support rods:



    The top will be threaded 7/8"-14 so that I can use any threaded shell holder and also so that I can install regular dies if I ever need it:










    I have not chamfer the inner edge here, but here is a close-up:

  17. #37
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    I then started turning the OD to about 1.250" or so. With the new insert surface finish was definitely a little nicer!:





    Quick test with the bushing before removing from lathe:




    This is how the rods look like as of today. I only started the threads to ensure concentricity - I still need to go back and finish all of the threads!:




    And this is a mock-up of the pieces for the press. Looks pretty beefy, right?




    Next I need to start drilling the holes in the base and boring them to size (1.500", for the bushings) - I will be doing this on the milling machine.

    Will

  18. #38
    Boolit Grand Master bedbugbilly's Avatar
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    Fantastic work sir and an interesting project! Really enjoying reading about it and the photos. Thanks so much for sharing!

  19. #39
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    Ya Hooey this is a fine looking project. You have some major skills.
    Watch your back.
    Shoot Straight.
    Conserve ammo.
    Never cut a deal with a Dragon. From the Shadowrun tabletop Role Playing Game.

  20. #40
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    It must be a Michigan thing but I am with Lloyd. I applaud the amazing skill needed to accomplish this but see little value in it. If I want strengthin a single stage press I use the RC....and if I want accuracy, I use the Co-Ax.

    For me it boils down to cost and benefit. And time is not “free”. For example, I have a lathe and could make my own dies but it is not worth it. At least for me.

    Still I admire the talent shown here. Great craftsmanship
    Don Verna


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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check