Decent but not heavy load for 45-70 cast

[wendyj]

I am casting out some 396 grain 45-70 with gas checks and am thinking of using H4198 as a go to load. I had went mid range to max on it and kind of a bruiser out of the Marlin Guide gun for a woman my size. I am going to be deer hunting and occasional black bear with it and wondered if anyone else uses the H4198 as a hunting go to powder. With jacketed bullets my husband reloads the Marlin 450 at almost max with imr 30301 and is way too much for me and downloading imr 3031 doesn't seem to back off the quick snap of the rifle. I've tried 31.5 grains of the 4198 and it's not too bad. Not sure about killing power and haven't had a chance to chorograph yet.

[retread]

Might want to look in Castpics. Below if some data they list for 45-70 levers. The loads are max for the weights listed but with your lighter bullet these would be toned down a bit. 425 gr versus your 396)



45-70 Govt (Lever) 311 RCBS 45-300-FN 311gr imr 4895 54.0 1790 0.000 CastData R1
45-70 Govt (Lever) 311 RCBS 45-300-FN 311gr imr 4198 45.0 1894 0.000 CastData R1
45-70 Govt (Lever) 311 RCBS 45-300-FN 311gr sr 4759 32.0 1681 0.000 CastData R1
45-70 Govt (Lever) 311 RCBS 45-300-FN 311gr 2400 29.0 1655 0.000 CastData R1
45-70 Govt (Lever) 425 RCBS 45-405-FN 425gr sr 4759 28.0 1409 0.000 CastData R1
45-70 Govt (Lever) 425 RCBS 45-405-FN 425gr imr 4198 41.0 1703 0.000 CastData R1
45-70 Govt (Lever) 425 RCBS 45-405-FN 425gr imr 3031 47.0 1543 0.000 CastData R1
45-70 Govt (Lever) 425 RCBS 45-405-FN 425gr reloder 7 48.0 1694 0.000 CastData R1
45-70 Govt (Lever) 507 RCBS 45-500-FN 507gr imr 4227 27.0 1342 0.000 CastData R1
45-70 Govt (Lever) 507 RCBS 45-500-FN 507gr imr 4198 32.0 1337 0.000 CastData R1

[Char-Gar]

Many folks think if a cartridge can be pushed faster, that is reason enough to do it. I don't hold that opinion. The 45-70 helped wipe out the Western Buffalo (Bison) herds. It also did a good job on the Native American's as well. The loads pushed a bullet out the muzzle at 1,100 to 1,200 feet per second.

Today we don't have anything any tougher to kill, so a load driving the bullet 1,400 - 1,500 fps is gobs a plenty stomp for everything in North America.

[Tatume]

I've tried 31.5 grains of the 4198 and it's not too bad. Not sure about killing power ...

Your 400 grain bullet should make about 1400 fps, which puts the power at about the same level as a 454 Casull revolver. Since the revolver has been used to take everything up to and including elephants, I don't think you should worry about killing power.

[richhodg66]

Last Fall my deer load was one of my Dad's cast bullets which weighed about 330 grains and 30 grains of 5744. Shot clear through a good sized doe almost lengthwise from maybe 60 yards which is about what my normal range is or less. That load is well within Trap Door levels, but shot well through my little H&R. The .45-70, more than any other cartridge its eems, attracts the types who want to hot rod a cartridge. No need in my opinion.

[Grmps]

try trail boss 12.5

[Crash_Corrigan]

I have a BPCR that I load with 695 Gr Creedmore lead boolit that utilizes a Buffalo Arms boolit mold. This honking chunk of lead alloy has a diameter of .513 and my loading of 104 Gr of Swiss 1 1/2 powder with a lubed wad moves out at 1250 FPS from my Winchester Model 1885 HiWall 50-90 Sharps rifle. The recoil is stout to say the least but the results downrange are insane. I have a AR500 steel plate target (18"x12") mounted on a 2"x2" pole and it has a rebar stand that is quite heavy and has a footprint of 2'deep and 18" wide. At a range of 350 yds this loading not only hits the target with a loud clang but it usually knocks the whole shebang backwards and to the ground. I have yet to calculate the foot pounds of energy that this loading produces but I am looking for a boolit mold that will produce a lighter boolit. I do not fire more than 20 of these rounds a day as I would rather distribute pain than be the receiver of such. However as I have over 100 these rounds loaded once I get a right mold I will probably break them down, remelt the lead boolits, save the powder and primed cases for use with a lighter boolit and powder charge...

[Jeff Michel]

I've used 40 grains of IMR4198 with a 330 grain HP for years. Mild and accurate. Good deer load.

[Hamish]

Considering that the .45 Govt. load was designed to shoot LENGTHWISE through a horse,,,,,,,,.

[500Linebaughbuck]

h4198, 2400, varget or rel7 doing 1200-1400fps and a 380 - 450gr cast boolit is all you need.

i can't remember the load(s) but i like a 405gr fn in my handi rifle going about 1300fps.

[centershot]

h4198, 2400, varget or rel7 doing 1200-1400fps and a 380 - 450gr cast boolit is all you need.

i can't remember the load(s) but i like a 405gr fn in my handi rifle going about 1300fps.

^^^^ This, exactly! As stated above, the original loads were designed to shoot a horse out from under whoever needed to be stopped. Buffalo? Seen any buffalo lately? That 400 grain bullet rolling along at a leisurely 1200 fps will shoot through any critter you're going to encounter in Georgia. You don't need to turn your rifle into an elephant rifle, 1200 fps will knock down any deer or black bear, without beating up your shoulder! And, at 1200 fps, you probably won't need the gas check.

[wendyj]

I've got to load and chronograph some this weekend. I've got plenty of 4198-3031-2400-unique -4895--Varget. I'm thinking same thing at around 1200 to 1400 fps max will do sufficient for anything here. I took a Fallow deer several,,many years ago with a Guide gun and some cor bons. Deer died and so did my shoulder. May try a big bear hunt in Canada next year with it but even the extra 200 lbs verses here should go down quick enough. My longest range in mountain area here will be around 125 yards. Canada won't be 50-75 at best according to guide I spoke with. Mold should cast at 400 but not with alloy I'm using. Average is 396 to 397. Al told me at Noe that's what I could expect and I'm ok with that weight.

[Tatume]

The Guide Gun is an amazingly capable rifle. Is yours any early one with ports?

[webfoot10]

15 grs. Unique. a 1/4 square of toilet paper on the powder, topped off with a Lee 420 gr. bullet as cast,(If it will chamber)
will go through a deer lenght wise. Will shoot to same point of aim as 30 grs. imr 3031. No recoil and very accurate.
Shot 15 shots at deer, 15 dead deer. What's not to like.

[knifemaker]

Wendyi, go to the Hodgdon reloading site and check the loads for the Trapdoor 45-70. They will list several of your powders for that caliber. The reloading data is free to view and use. Here is the link: http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/

[Rufus Krile]

A 405gr Lee bulet at 1400fps will pass through a buffalo, side to side through the shoulders, and you'll never recover the bullet. The 1400fps should be the TOP of your loads. Someone else mentioned TrailBoss @ 12.5gr... Try up to 16.0 and that'll give you about 1200fps. One of the better powders for 45/70 is Accurate Arms 5744... 27gr would give you just about that 1400fps mark.

[wendyj]

The Guide Gun is an amazingly capable rifle. Is yours any early one with ports?

It was ported. I sold it years ago. Just a 22 inch Remlin now. That's one gun I wish I had never let go. Lesson learned. Been bidding on one on gunbroker got another week left.

[Rick Hodges]

My deer load is a 300gr. Hornady or 300 gr. Ranch dog at 1800 fps out of a Marlin Guide Gun. The recoil is not excessive....at that velocity I have a 150yd. point blank range. The lighter faster bullet flattens trajectory. It has been an impressive deer stopper.

[JimB..]

My deer load is a 300gr. Hornady or 300 gr. Ranch dog at 1800 fps out of a Marlin Guide Gun. The recoil is not excessive....at that velocity I have a 150yd. point blank range. The lighter faster bullet flattens trajectory. It has been an impressive deer stopper.

I’m with Rick, drop the mass of the projectile to 300gr at least for the deer, or better yet get something in 30cal for the deer. There are very good and inexpensive lever guns in 30-30 that are more than adequate for deer, even big Michigan deer.

[TCLouis]

Wendyj
Give us some hints
How far will be your longest shots?
What is your load now?

I always find it interesting the answers one gets when there is no starting point.