Winchester 1892 failing to chamber

[David LaPell]

I recently found a Winchester 1892 in .32-20 made in 1894. I took it to the range today and found that it doesn't chamber a round. It will bring a round up, and then it seems to hang there and won't go forward. It does the same with my 115 grain handloads or 100 grain factory ammo. It does however, chamber if the gun is title on its right side. It will not if you tilt it to the left.
I took a photo with a dummy round to show where the round stops. I wonder if it could be the loading gate as I know these tend to be an issue, if so, what would be the solution? The screw is tight so not sure if the loading gate is simply worn out or not.

[Texas by God]

Replace the cartridge guides would be a good start. If the loading gate is flush and springy it's probably ok.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[David LaPell]

The loading gate is what I would call somewhat springy, it's got tension but I think it might be the culprit. I loosened it up and then tightened it again, and now it feeds say one out of three and if you tilt the gun a bit to the left it chambers instead of all the way. I am going to clean it tonight so I think I am going to try and get some more gunk out of it and see what that leaves me.

[EMR]

I recently picked up a ‘94 that hung in the same spot. At first I thought it was the guides too. But instead I found that the carrier spring was too weak to bring the cartridge high enough into the guides. I wasn’t able to find anyone that had the spring in stock so I bent the spring enough to give it more leverage. And now it works like a charm. Fast or slow, left or right, even upside down.

[indian joe]

You fellers have me absolutely bamboozled !! EMR What does the loading gate spring have to do with feed once the lifter is elevated ???? all I can imagine is that in the process of attending to that problem you dislodged something else that was the problem

[indian joe]

David ----clean it properly ! then polish the grooves in the feed rails - dont remove metal just clean it up and polish it shiny smooth - do the same to the front surfaces of the ejector - at the point in the feed cycle you show, the base of the case needs to slide upwards across the face of the ejector - if it has a burr or daggy from rust it digs into the case base ---- tother thing ---- work it like ya stole it !!! if you ***** foot around and slow cycle gives it more chance to snag and not feed. Its not the loading gate spring! - that has ZERO effect on feed at the point you having trouble - has zero effect on feed at any point through the cycle ! if the gate is shut after you insert a round its working as it should. It wont need new feed rails either

[David LaPell]

Well, I think I am on the right track. I checked all the screws again to make sure they were tight, and I loosened up the screw for the loading gate, didn't take it out, just loosened it some, then retightened it and some gunk came out when I did. I tightened it and now the gun feeds, not 100%, but say it doesn't one out of twenty and that's with the dummy rounds that are 115 grain. I tried it from pretty much every angle, the rifle with the barrel up, barrel down, barrel level and it feeds almost every single time now. I am still going to take it apart and give it a good cleaning and hopefully that takes care of the rest of it. Thanks for all the help so far, here's hoping that it was something really small.

[EMR]

You fellers have me absolutely bamboozled !! EMR What does the loading gate spring have to do with feed once the lifter is elevated ???? all I can imagine is that in the process of attending to that problem you dislodged something else that was the problem

My mistake. I mislabeled the part. It was the carrier (what you’re likely referring to as the lifter) and its spring after re looking at some schematics.

You guys can discount my opinion, I’m just offering another thing to look ok at.

Really though, the cartridge couldn’t clear the guides because the carrier wasn’t bringing them high enough and they were ramming straight into the guides. Everyone here told me it was the guides, so I changed them both and I still had the problem 90% of the time. I fixed the spring and it’s been 100% fine in 300 rounds.

OP, it’s just another thing to consider. Here’s a link to my thread that I posted on this where you can see where it was jamming and the damage to the guides where I was told to polish.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...eding-Problems

[James Wisner]

This is more likely a case of several decades of dried oil and gunk inside the action.

The 1892 carrier has a small spring loaded plunger in its left side that bears agains the bottom flat of the left cartidge guide. In that area of the guide is two detents that the carrier plunger snaps into for the carrier to be held in the up or down position.

Also in the left cartidge guide the end is the pivoted cartidge stop to keep the shells coming out of the magazine and it is powered by a small flat spring that the cartidge guide screw ( holds it in place ) If the spring is not in the correct place when the screw is installed the guide is to far toward the center of the action, causing feeding problems.

The right cartidge guide is a smaller part and is also held in place by a screw.

The spring cover ( loading cover ) is another part held in place by a screw, it has a rib on its inside that is to help position the cartidge in the carrier. Be advised they are caliber specific and if you have the wrong caliber of cover in place you will have problems feeding.

The bottom line is a LOT of GUNK and DRIED OIL can be inside the action and if things are not CLEAN and properly installed then feeding issues can result.

JW

[David LaPell]

Drat, drat and double drat!

Well, I thought I had the problem licked. Once I got the 1892 up and running again, thanks again to Hootmix for the ejector collar. But now it won't load again. I completely took the gun apart, and cleaned many, many years of gunk out of the gun. The loading gate is tight and has plenty of tension, the ejector spring is fine, in fact it launches my dummy rounds several feet, but it will not bring the rounds up. I took the cartridge guides out and cleaned them, no burrs or issues, but that's where it seems to be hanging up.
So...back to the drawing board.

[indian joe]

Drat, drat and double drat!

Well, I thought I had the problem licked. Once I got the 1892 up and running again, thanks again to Hootmix for the ejector collar. But now it won't load again. I completely took the gun apart, and cleaned many, many years of gunk out of the gun. The loading gate is tight and has plenty of tension, the ejector spring is fine, in fact it launches my dummy rounds several feet, but it will not bring the rounds up. I took the cartridge guides out and cleaned them, no burrs or issues, but that's where it seems to be hanging up.
So...back to the drawing board.

David
If you pull it down again ---post pictures of the cutout grooves in both cartridge guides and also the lifter and a front view of the ejector - out of the gun so we can see all the machining that effects feeding.

[David LaPell]

I will probably be taking the gun down again in a week or so. I noticed last night before I posted that the spring for the cartridge stop with the left cartridge guide is toast, no tension at all.

The weird part, I mean really weird is that when I got the gun, it wouldn't feed. Then for one day you could feed it anything, 100 grain, 115 grain rounds and it would chamber like a champ. Hold the gun from every conceivable angle and it would chamber.

Then I took the gun apart to clean it because it hadn't been probably since Elvis was popular at least and it went right back to doing what it's doing now. When I got the ejector collar from Hootmix I also bought a new ejector spring to go with it. Now the dummy rounds sail 3 feet in the air when I can eject them. I checked the cartridge guides last night when I had it apart again, and there were no burrs, gouges, etc. It all looks good, and clean. I am not sure how much the cartridge stop spring plays into all of this, but when it's replaced, then that's pretty much everything except the guides. Here's what it looks like right now without a round into the lifter, that seems to be coming up just fine.

[indian joe]

I will probably be taking the gun down again in a week or so. I noticed last night before I posted that the spring for the cartridge stop with the left cartridge guide is toast, no tension at all.

The weird part, I mean really weird is that when I got the gun, it wouldn't feed. Then for one day you could feed it anything, 100 grain, 115 grain rounds and it would chamber like a champ. Hold the gun from every conceivable angle and it would chamber.

Then I took the gun apart to clean it because it hadn't been probably since Elvis was popular at least and it went right back to doing what it's doing now. When I got the ejector collar from Hootmix I also bought a new ejector spring to go with it. Now the dummy rounds sail 3 feet in the air when I can eject them. I checked the cartridge guides last night when I had it apart again, and there were no burrs, gouges, etc. It all looks good, and clean. I am not sure how much the cartridge stop spring plays into all of this, but when it's replaced, then that's pretty much everything except the guides. Here's what it looks like right now without a round into the lifter, that seems to be coming up just fine.

David
The lifter does not look right - I wanted to say it was one from a 44/40 but dont know if thats the the case either - you said at the start that it fed ok if you tilted to the right - that fits what I am going to say here. The lifter in my 32/20 has a lip on the left side which keeps the round centered between the feed rails . the other thing I question - does your lifter have the spring loaded plunger in the left side of it and if yes is it functioning properly - (engaging the detent at top and bottom of the lifter travel) looking at your pic there is a hole in the lifter floor that should have the retaining pin for that plunger in it ? looks like an empty hole from above? As you start to cycle the bolt forwards the lever disengages from holding the lifter up and it then relies on spring pressure into the detent notch/hole to keep it up under the round - if the lifter can flop down at that point you get the case rim jamming in the rails for sure - likewise if the round is too far to the left because that lip is not positioning it straight (I think anyway) 32 lifter

[indian joe]

David
The lifter does not look right - I wanted to say it was one from a 44/40 but dont know if thats the the case either - you said at the start that it fed ok if you tilted to the right - that fits what I am going to say here. The lifter in my 32/20 has a lip on the left side which keeps the round centered between the feed rails . the other thing I question - does your lifter have the spring loaded plunger in the left side of it and if yes is it functioning properly - (engaging the detent at top and bottom of the lifter travel) looking at your pic there is a hole in the lifter floor that should have the retaining pin for that plunger in it ? looks like an empty hole from above? As you start to cycle the bolt forwards the lever disengages from holding the lifter up and it then relies on spring pressure into the detent notch/hole to keep it up under the round - if the lifter can flop down at that point you get the case rim jamming in the rails for sure - likewise if the round is too far to the left because that lip is not positioning it straight (I think anyway)

44 lifter

This has been a kig size headache posting these pics - (used to be easy but I changed my phone plan an its messed up the picture deal .
compare the two lifter dimensions here anyway - both these guns are original and function flawless.