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Thread: The Ideal 357 Magnum Self Defense Round?

  1. #1
    Boolit Master
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    The Ideal 357 Magnum Self Defense Round?

    I know I'm going to get a ton of different answers here, but what do you think it the ideal 357 mag self defense round? A lot of people seem to prefer 125gr HPs, some prefer 158 HPs, others say there penetrate too much. Some are fine with 158gr SWCs, but again, people think over penetration will be an issue.

    I'm kind of leaning towards a 125gr Gold Dot HP at about 1400-1500 FPS.
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  2. #2
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    170 grain WFN at 950 fps

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    Boolit Bub dbmjr1's Avatar
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    I don't think it makes much difference, so long as it's a full house load.

    I think a load of belly button lint doing close to 2K fps would put two holes in most two legged varmints.
    "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
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  4. #4
    Boolit Grand Master Char-Gar's Avatar
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    Self defense where? What you would use in a rural residence would be different from what you would use in church or a crowded mall. Over penetration, with a non-expanding bullet, is pretty much guaranteed with a full snort 357 Mag load.

    If you insist on one do-all everywhere load then a good 125 HJP would be my pick. But one shot with that load in my bedroom at right would leave everybody deaf and blind. I would step it down to a +P 38 Special JHP.
    Disclaimer: The above is not holy writ. It is just my opinion based on my experience and knowledge. Your mileage may vary.

  5. #5
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    Agree
    Just depends
    My load is mild, 340 foot pounds, but may shoot through a Goblin

  6. #6
    Boolit Grand Master

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    Heavy boolit, 170gr to 200gr, round or flat nose, 800-900 fps.
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    self defense against what?

    I prefer heavy...like the Ranch Dog RF 190gr cast with a hard alloy and Hot load for MAX penetration...you never know when you might need to disable a Chevy V8, LOL.
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  8. #8
    Boolit Grand Master Char-Gar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beagle333 View Post
    Heavy boolit, 170gr to 200gr, round or flat nose, 800-900 fps.
    That is still going to sail on through the bad guy and takeout whoever it behind him or her. Some years ago, there was a big prison riot when a guard shot an inmate with the old 38 Special 158 grain rounds nose and took out another inmate across the yard.

    Over penetration is no joke. Nobody wants to survive a bad guy and then go broke in court when the innocent bystander takes you to the cleaners, which they will do.
    Disclaimer: The above is not holy writ. It is just my opinion based on my experience and knowledge. Your mileage may vary.

  9. #9
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    You are definitely going to have do all you can to pick your shot. You don't know what the bad guy will be wearing or how heavy he is or how much of him is muscle or how far away he will be or how many bones you'll hit, nor if they are at skin level or deep within the meat. So there's no magic boolit that will penetrate effectively and never come out the other side. You just have to get one that will punch through his clothes and into him and do your best to make sure the backstop is clear. Try not to take shots in a movie theater or while in line at the grocery store if you can help it, but I'd rather have a lengthy court battle than be dead. While I haven't had to shoot anybody, I do expect it will be in a more private setting when they come for me personally.
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  10. #10
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    I used heavy , 180+ grain boolits for hunting or bear protection, but in town, that's too much of a good thing when it comes to penetration. When the LASO adopted the Beretta 92's, one of the first officer-involved shootings resulted in a bullet traversing a robbery suspect and killing a pregnant women and her fetus. The county of Los Angeles settled for what was then a very large sum. (Got to love those deep pocket laws.) These days I would tend towards a 135 grain Gold Dot Speer 357 load, but a 158 grain LHPSWC Remington 38 +p would more likely make the cut.
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  11. #11
    Boolit Grand Master Char-Gar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beagle333 View Post
    You are definitely going to have do all you can to pick your shot. You don't know what the bad guy will be wearing or how heavy he is or how much of him is muscle or how far away he will be or how many bones you'll hit, nor if they are at skin level or deep within the meat. So there's no magic boolit that will penetrate effectively and never come out the other side. You just have to get one that will punch through his clothes and into him and do your best to make sure the backstop is clear. Try not to take shots in a movie theater or while in line at the grocery store if you can help it, but I'd rather have a lengthy court battle than be dead. While I haven't had to shoot anybody, I do expect it will be in a more private setting when they come for me personally.
    I admire your confidence that you can pick where you will need to shoot in self defense. Me, I am not so confident. The brown noxious stuff hits the ventilator quite often unexpected, inconvenient. Maybe I am just unlucky.

    As for being dragged into court goes goes, that sound like the fellow who smokes three packs a day and tells folks, that everybody is going to die of something. I have spent many a long day in the court room representing either the Dragor or Dragee to know the toll it takes on the people involved.

    Bottom line is do as you wish, for that is part of our essential liberty in this great land.
    Disclaimer: The above is not holy writ. It is just my opinion based on my experience and knowledge. Your mileage may vary.

  12. #12
    Boolit Master
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    How about a plated DEWC at about 1,000-1,100 fps? Also, what barrel length are you going to shoot the boolit out of? A 2" J frame, a 4" K frame, or an 8 3/8 Model 27? You'd be hard pressed to get a 125 JHP moving that fast in anything shorter than 6", especially if it is a chronographed load, not what is expected from a load book. Also, what is your most probable threat, a 250 lb. thug dressed for winter in upstate NY, or a skinny drugee dressed for summer in Atlanta? Not trying to be snide since all of us CCW folks face many of the same questions. GF

  13. #13
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    I didn't say that I had confidence..... I said that you have to do all that you can, not to kill the pregnant mom standing behind the bad guy, if you can see one there.


    As for being dragged into court goes goes, that sound like the fellow who smokes three packs a day and tells folks, that everybody is going to die of something. I have spent many a long day in the court room representing either the Dragor or Dragee to know the toll it takes on the people involved.
    Obviously it is much better to be dead than to have made an errant shot while trying to defend yourself. Just don't pull that trigger. There's too much to risk.


    Apparently the only answer is a +P 38 Special JHP. Therefore I will change my answer to that and go clean some of this tar and feathers off of me.
    Last edited by Beagle333; 07-14-2018 at 04:09 PM. Reason: punctuation
    KE4GWE - - - - - - Colt 1860, it just feels right.

  14. #14
    Boolit Master
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    AM44 -

    Howdy!

    I’ve read up on it. I personally wrote to Jeff Cooper, Chuck Taylor, Ed Sanow....even argued nicely on the topic of .357Mag revolver vs .45 ACP M1911 ...... in handgun defense class w/ Clint Smith.

    The FBI’s handgun cartridge “ effectiveness” chart for years had the Remington 125g JHP load rates as #1.
    The similar Federal 125gr JHP load also was rated up there.

    A cursory review of the proven effective calibers/ cartridges shows they achieve around 425ft lbs, or more.
    The 125gr JHP loads listed run upwards of 525ft lb, if memory serves.
    * Thing is.....John and Jane Doe have face a good deal of challenge in controlling “ fult-tilt “ .357Mag loads.... of any grain wt; in anything like a readily concealable gun. *

    What I did ( works for me and my build/ stature ) is go w/ a custom 4” heavy- barrelled “N” frame w/ fixed sights. I have variously carried the Rem 125gr HP and sometimes the FED125gr HP.
    This has been my “go to” carry set-up for 43yr.

    RX -
    Custom Herrett’s stocks, and practice, practice, practice !!

    I myself don’t see any bennies in using a lead 158SWC in a .357Mag for self defense.
    But hey... that’s just me. And, all I cast are 158 - 172gr lead SWCs ( Lyman ). JMHO.


    With regards,
    357Mag

  15. #15
    DOR RED BEAR's Avatar
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    whatever you carry i would think any 357 load would work pretty well. i plan on getting a 357 fo carry in the future but i am on a tight budget and prefer a three inch barrel there is just too much vel loss in a 2 inch barrel.

  16. #16
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    358429 6gr. unique in .38 spl. cases. I loaded a lot of that load for police officers. also dropped a deer with it. it will work just fine as a defense round.

  17. #17
    Boolit Grand Master GhostHawk's Avatar
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    I don't see overpenitration as a problem. Inside the house its 12 ga all the time.

    Outside, well I really don't care a whole lot if that slug makes 2 holes vs one.

    All depends on the situation, what you consider acceptable and what is not.

    For me, everything centerfire goes through too many layers of sheet rock, plaster, lath. Possible exception is the .32sw long.

    12 ga and 5 rounds of 7.5's. I don't need to hit him at 50 yards, I'm inside the living room and not wanting loads to go through walls into the bedroom.

    Just like I don't really need those 7.5's to penetrate much. He's going to take a heck of a wallup. Heck he could be wearing a vest. Either way you have time for a nice aimed down at the floor head shot. Right? That ain't going to go into the bedroom.

    I could be wrong, but I don't think so. In 65 years I have yet to see much that can stand up to a 12 ga.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by am44mag View Post
    I know I'm going to get a ton of different answers here, but what do you think it the ideal 357 mag self defense round? A lot of people seem to prefer 125gr HPs, some prefer 158 HPs, others say there penetrate too much. Some are fine with 158gr SWCs, but again, people think over penetration will be an issue.

    I'm kind of leaning towards a 125gr Gold Dot HP at about 1400-1500 FPS.
    Yep, you got a wide range of answers. In the old days many of the state cops out here in the west swore by the 125gn JHP. So much so that Sig developed the .357Sig to match that round in order to get contracts for semi-autos with the states.

    But, that was quite a few years ago and the ammo mfgs have made huge strides in developing rounds for LEO and self defense. Look at Hornady's development of the Critical Duty line of ammo, made specifically to mee the FBI ammo performance requirements. And the Critical Defense line for the 'civilian' customer (less penetration after penetrating things like car windows). Other mfgs have the same kind of ammo so look around.

    My old standard was 140gn Silvertips, mainly cause of personal testing for expansion after penetrating several layers of denim (Gold Dots did not do well back then). Now days I use the Critical Defense when in the house. When I go outdoors the 'target' is more likely not human so I will have a snake shot round first and then some heavy flat nose solid bullets. Overpenetration is not an issue in that arena.

    Basically there is no one answer. Figure out what your likely scenario will be and choose accordingly.

  19. #19
    Boolit Buddy

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    I think that RED BEAR nailed it. Any .357 Magnum load is going to get the job done, and pronto.

  20. #20
    Boolit Master

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    the one that you can put where you desire.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check