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Thread: Paradox loading for 12 gauge 2.75-inch plastic cartrdges?

  1. #1
    Boolit Buddy

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    Paradox loading for 12 gauge 2.75-inch plastic cartrdges?

    Having acquired my first shotgun in more than a generation, I am interested in either buying ammunition, or handloading solid projectiles into roll crimped or star crimped 12 gauge 2.75-inch cases. While I refer to this ammunition as "Paradox," that's a mislabeling. Paradox ammunition had its projectile-loaded all-brass cases much longer than a conventional 12 gauge 2.75-inch roll- or star-crimped cartridge. I refer to bulleted 12 gauge 2.75-inch overall length cartridges. I am specifically ruling out any version that uses a sabot with reduced diameter projectile. I am ruling out conventional 12 gauge projectiles with its extreme hollow base. I am interested only in projectiles that are in the .715-inch through .735-inch range - about 12 gauge's bore size, more or less.

    A - What commercial manufacturer offers such 2.75-inch ammunition?

    B - Has any of you created handloaded ammunition similar to what I seek? If you have, please describe it in detail.

    C - Has any of the cartridges identified or described in "A" or "B" been fired in fully rifled barrels rather than the 2-3 inches of rifling of a Paradox barrel?
    Itís so simple to be wise. Just think of something stupid to say and then donít say it. Sam Levinson

  2. #2
    Boolit Buddy

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    Load your own, look at the 12ga 1oz Thug Slug
    Scott

    You can easily judge the character of others by how they treat those who they think can do nothing for them.

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  3. #3
    Boolit Master bikerbeans's Avatar
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    If you have to have a fold crimp then you need to handload.
    I can't think of any factory slugs that are fold crimped.

    You need to slug your SG and determine the groove diameter. I assume you will be shooting a rifled barrel or at least a rifled choke. If you have a smoothbore, a solid base slug is not going to work well. Your best bet for a fullbore solid base slug is have a mold cut by Tom at Accurate.

    BB

  4. #4
    Boolit Master gpidaho's Avatar
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    Naphtali; A few of us shoot round ball (Pumpkin ball) loads. I have a Lyman .735RB mould and BPI's 7th addition slug load manual lists loads for such rounds. Gp

  5. #5
    Boolit Buddy
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    Unless I missed something, he says roll or star crimp. You can handload slugs, but honestly a Brenneke slug fits the bill. It has a bit of a hollow base to accept a wad, although you wont see much if any expansion in an animal. I think both Brenneke and Rio currently load Brenneke slugs. I'd stay away from the K.O. version which is the economy slug and the tail falls off the slug half the time, but all the others including the classic (1 1/8 oz) which is my favorite , 1 1/4 oz, and 1 3/8 oz versions all shoot well.

    The BPI "Thug Slug" is very soft with a hollow point, and expands a lot. For a handload, a good choice is a .735" round ball. All other solid full bore options require rifling, a smooth bore will not shoot them well. Brenneke slugs are not currently available for handloading, but can be shot in both rifled and smooth bores equally well.

  6. #6
    Boolit Buddy maglvr's Avatar
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    Contact Dixie Slugs and see if they have any of the original Terminator slugs to sell, I seem to recall they sold just the bullets also at one time. And absolutely great folks to deal with.
    They no longer produce the loaded Terminators from what I can see but here is a description of it, from the website...........

    The Original Dixie Terminator12 is a reintroduction of the famous British Paradox Load. Like the original Paradox load, it has a .730"-730 gr hard cast heat treated bullet. Unlike the original, it is loaded today in a modern 3" 12 ga. Mag. hull with modern components. The original Paradox was loaded to two velocity levels...black powder at 1000'/" and Cordite at 1200'/".

    The Original Dixie Terminator 12 is loaded to 1250/1275'/" from a Hasting 20" rifled barrel. Longer barrels will produce about 25'/" per extra inch.

    I have used them and they hit like a freight train! NOTHING like any slug I have ever seen before, it essentially turns a shotgun into a .730 Nitro Express Special. It would be my #1 choice for stopping anything I thought was intending to devour me, they make a heavier one now also but I have never used them, I can only guess they are even more awesome and devastating.
    Good luck on your search!
    MagLvr
    The .357 Magnum......
    1935
    Major Douglas Wesson, using factory loads, which were a 158 gr. soft lead bullet, traveling 1515 fps, from an 8 3/4" barreled S&W, producing 812 ft. lbs of muzzle energy.
    Antelope - 200 yards (2 shots)
    Elk - 130 yards (1 shot)
    Moose - 100 yards (1 shot)
    Grizzly Bear - 135 yards (1 shot).

    It kind of makes one wonder, why today, it will bounce off anything bigger than a rabbit

  7. #7
    Boolit Buddy

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    Quote Originally Posted by maglvr View Post
    Contact Dixie Slugs and see if they have any of the original Terminator slugs to sell, I seem to recall they sold just the bullets also at one time. And absolutely great folks to deal with.
    They no longer produce the loaded Terminators from what I can see but here is a description of it, from the website...........

    The Original Dixie Terminator12 is a reintroduction of the famous British Paradox Load. Like the original Paradox load, it has a .730"-730 gr hard cast heat treated bullet. Unlike the original, it is loaded today in a modern 3" 12 ga. Mag. hull with modern components. The original Paradox was loaded to two velocity levels...black powder at 1000'/" and Cordite at 1200'/".

    The Original Dixie Terminator 12 is loaded to 1250/1275'/" from a Hasting 20" rifled barrel. Longer barrels will produce about 25'/" per extra inch.

    I have used them and they hit like a freight train! NOTHING like any slug I have ever seen before, it essentially turns a shotgun into a .730 Nitro Express Special. It would be my #1 choice for stopping anything I thought was intending to devour me, they make a heavier one now also but I have never used them, I can only guess they are even more awesome and devastating.
    Good luck on your search!
    MagLvr
    Many thanks for the heads-up. While I cannot be certain until I have a minimal order in hand, the slug appears to be remarkably similar to my custom conical for my .72-caliber English-style muzzleloading rifles. Mine has two large lubrication slots and weighs 775 grains at 30:1 casting mix. Its obvious potential problems are its three-diameters that taper to improve muzzleloading - from top-to-bottom .731inch ending at .725 inch. With your recommendation I'll pick up some Dixies and try my conicals as well.
    Itís so simple to be wise. Just think of something stupid to say and then donít say it. Sam Levinson

  8. #8
    Boolit Master
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    The term Paradox was used By british Gunmakers not Because of the ammo But the Rifles themselves. the barrels were a Paradox in That they were both smooth and Rifled . most If not all were rifles @ appox the last 4 inches of the bore@ the same time. Paradox was the use of Both Shot shell and rifled ammo being Used By the one hunter @ the same time. in some cases On double Guns. 1 barrel was smooth for shot and the other was Paradox. But some were both Paradox.. the old rifled slugs were trying to compensate for that paradox.
    NRA Endowment Member
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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check