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Thread: I'm getting 25gr of FFG in 357 Magnum case....? HELP!!!!!!!!!!

  1. #1
    Boolit Buddy
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    I'm getting 25gr of FFG in 357 Magnum case....? HELP!!!!!!!!!!

    Is this even possible? Let me clarify this is the first time I've ever loaded BP cartridges. Also the brass looks crimped or rippled if that's a good word for it after the bullet is seated. But I didn't press too hard to seat the bullet, no harder than normal. I did drop this through a 2 ft brass droptube if that matters. Just seems like that much FFG shouldn't fit in a 357 magnum load. From my research I've read 20-21gr.
















  2. #2
    Boolit Buddy jugulater's Avatar
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    A bit more than i would have thought would fit in a 357 Mag. But if it fits id say run with it, im entirely certain that anything designed to handle .357 Magnum Pressures will just shrug off a BP load.

    Although you may not like Running BP with Jacketed Boolits, With Cast the Boolit Lube helps keep the fouling soft. maybe dipping them in some lube would work.

    Also the Drop Tube is probably why you are getting more Powder in the shell than you think you should be. i guess you could be over compressing the powder but i dont know what effects that would have.
    im really curious to see what some of the more knowledgeable people have to say.
    Last edited by jugulater; 07-10-2018 at 11:33 PM.

  3. #3
    Boolit Buddy
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    I thought the cases had ripples in them but after looking at them in a different light they look ok. I will be shooting it out of this. Oh, and if you look where I loaded the powder to, is that about right or too high?


  4. #4
    Boolit Buddy jugulater's Avatar
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    as for the cases id check to see if they chamber in the gun freely, if they just drop right in i wouldnt bother worrying about it.

    Thats a pretty revolver, be sure to clean it real good after running BP through it, use Warm Soapy Water or Ballistol to get rid of the corrosive fouling.

    as for the amount of powder, you probably cant fit enough BP in the case to be dangerous, But ive never worked with BP in the .357 Mag so i dont know how much compression is right for it.

  5. #5
    Boolit Buddy
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    I already checked. They just fall in and when opening the loading gate, turning muzzle up, and rotating the cylinder they drop freely out. Seems I'm GTG and going to add 25gr of BP to my personal load data. Next is 45 Colt... Maybe tomorrow.

    I put a medium to medium-heavy crimp on all these 357 loads.

    Thanks for the help

  6. #6
    Boolit Master gpidaho's Avatar
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    I'm far from any sort of BP expert, but I wouldn't shoot jacketed bullets with BP The large lube grooves on cast bullets meant for BP loads are there to carry enough lube to keep the fouling soft. You don't want a HUGE fouling mess in that pretty revolver. Gp

  7. #7
    Boolit Buddy
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    Quote Originally Posted by gpidaho View Post
    I'm far from any sort of BP expert, but I wouldn't shoot jacketed bullets with BP The large lube grooves on cast bullets meant for BP loads are there to carry enough lube to keep the fouling soft. You don't want a HUGE fouling mess in that pretty revolver. Gp
    It's Alliant Black MZ, which is designed to work with smokeless powder bullets. These are copper plated and not jacketed.

  8. #8
    Boolit Buddy jugulater's Avatar
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    Interesting. ive never shot any Alliant Black MZ. its supposed to be non corrosive IIRC. i say load up a batch of 25 rounds and go shoot 'em up and tell us how it goes.

  9. #9
    Boolit Buddy
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    I’ll report back Saturday

  10. #10
    Boolit Buddy jugulater's Avatar
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    10-4

    also scratch that on the Non-Corrosive Part still Clean it like its BP. you might even want to use Windex first then soap and water

  11. #11
    Boolit Buddy
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stopsign32v View Post
    I’ll report back Saturday
    STOP --whoa ! hold yer horses

    -----21 to 22 grains of real blackpowder is a common load for 357 magnum wid a 158 grain lead boolit - lighter boolit ? more room for powder - fired cases not resized ? more room for powder
    Some thoughts
    1) Black MZ aint real blackpowder -- its a substitute -- who cares you ask? --- nobody really --but the density maybe will be different? dunno till we check!
    2) you used a drop tube --so-?- so most blokes that load 357 would not bother doing that but would just scoop load - so you packed it in better = extra grain or two
    3) measure is highly suspect - how so ? some dude in a workshop made a brass tube thingy and scratched a mark on it that said 25 grains --- the mark is a perfectly legit measure of volume - grains is a measure of weight - did you check your volume measure against a set of scales to ascertain that the 25 mark actually is 25 grains weight of powder. It may be exact, it may be several grains different up or down - does not matter really so long as you put sufficient powder in the case to have a safe load and keep it consistent from case to case - which it seems you took pains to do - good ! (need a little compression with real blackpowder - read the directions ona can for subs) .All this only matters when ya get in a panic and yell heeeeellllpppp - because the numbers dont match what you have been told is gospel.
    4) lookin in the case mouth maybe its a bit full ?? for a 158 grain - but what size is the boolit? - 125 ? then it looks about right to me.

    Go shoot - go have fun - the 357 mag makes a really cool blackpowder round.

  12. #12
    Boolit Buddy
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    Quote Originally Posted by indian joe View Post
    STOP --whoa ! hold yer horses

    -----21 to 22 grains of real blackpowder is a common load for 357 magnum wid a 158 grain lead boolit - lighter boolit ? more room for powder - fired cases not resized ? more room for powder
    Some thoughts
    1) Black MZ aint real blackpowder -- its a substitute -- who cares you ask? --- nobody really --but the density maybe will be different? dunno till we check!
    I'm hoping that even if it is hotter than BP (it is) it will never reach the pressure of factory 357 magnum loads.
    2) you used a drop tube --so-?- so most blokes that load 357 would not bother doing that but would just scoop load - so you packed it in better = extra grain or two
    3) measure is highly suspect - how so ? some dude in a workshop made a brass tube thingy and scratched a mark on it that said 25 grains --- the mark is a perfectly legit measure of volume - grains is a measure of weight - did you check your volume measure against a set of scales to ascertain that the 25 mark actually is 25 grains weight of powder. It may be exact, it may be several grains different up or down - does not matter really so long as you put sufficient powder in the case to have a safe load and keep it consistent from case to case - which it seems you took pains to do - good ! (need a little compression with real blackpowder - read the directions ona can for subs) .All this only matters when ya get in a panic and yell heeeeellllpppp - because the numbers dont match what you have been told is gospel.
    It was a little over 25gr on my scale
    4) lookin in the case mouth maybe its a bit full ?? for a 158 grain - but what size is the boolit? - 125 ? then it looks about right to me.
    I agree it looks pretty full. But it did compress ok under a 158gr. Maybe Black MZ compresses a lot?

    Go shoot - go have fun - the 357 mag makes a really cool blackpowder round.
    See my replies in red.

  13. #13
    Boolit Master
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    I've shot 25 grains of 3f under a 158 grain cast boolit in my Marlin. Lots of good, clean, black powder fun, enjoy it!
    You can also add a priming charge of smokeless to cut down the fouling.
    Warning: I know Judo. If you force me to prove it I'll shoot you.

  14. #14
    Boolit Mold
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    I've been experimenting with Black-MZ in cartridges (45 Colt) and consequently have done a good bit of weighing charges and checking against BP equivalent volumes. 25g by weight of Black-MZ is very close to a volume equivalent of 30g of FFFg. I've never loaded the 357 Mag with BP so I don't know if that would be considered an over load or not. I don't think there would be any pressure problems but a lighter load might shoot better. You'll just have to experiment, but it would be kind of a miracle if the first load you tried was a tack driver.

    In any event, even shooting this substitute instead of real BP, water is your friend and the universal solvent. Come cleaning time I put a dollop of SimpleGreen in about a gallon of water and scrub everything with that. A few squirts of Ballistol afterward and my revolvers have stayed clean.

    YMMV,
    Dave

  15. #15
    Boolit Buddy
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    If you compress to much the powder column becomes a "hardtac" and the primer only ignites the end, ie. a cigarette burn.
    It will only burn from the end and give erratic performance as the burnijg pushes the "hardtac" and bullet out the tube.

    Sometimes less is more and who's gonna know in a wheelgun?

    Why not eksperiment with some lube cakes/wads?
    Go to the thrift store and buy an ond ladies felt hat. Punch some wads and dip them in lube.
    Load a card wad then a lubed wad and finish with another card vad under the bullet.
    You'll be amazed as to how much that does for fouling!

  16. #16
    Boolit Buddy
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    I would ck that measure's setting on a scale.
    Use enough powder to compress 1/8-3/16", when the bullet is seated.
    LG
    Hav'n you along-Is like lose'n 2 good men

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check