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Thread: Accuracy isnt king for me.

  1. #21
    Boolit Master


    Walks's Avatar
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    ACCURACY IS KING !!!!!!!!!

    I don't mean in the sense that the heavy rifle long range guys shoot, or BenchRest.

    I think a solid rest is the BEST way to learn the basics.
    Trigger squeeze, sight alignment & windage, breathing, etc.

    If I measured groups of 4 to 6 inches at 25yds with a Handgun, I'd never have hit a running jackrabbit with my DAD'S old COLT OFFICIAL POLICE or a SAA.

    The old WEATHERBY ACCURACY GUARANTEE of 3 shot's in an 1 1/2" is fine by me for a HUNTING RIFLE. Developing accurate loads is half the fun.

    I can get the same out of all my COWBOY Pistol caliber LEVER RIFLES at 50yds.
    And I expect 2" out of my RIFLE Caliber LEVER Guns at 100yds with either style of PEEP sight. But I just enjoy being at the Range Shooting just about anything. And yes I still shoot off hand when my back will take it. Growing up we practiced shooting from every position with or without a make shift rest. With my arthritis, busted back and losing my eyesight I'm just happy to hit paper and not break the target frame.

    But when all is said & done, and the last round hits the target.

    ACCURACY IS WHAT YOU NEED IT TO BE.

    An Eastern DEER HUNTER in a tree stand needs 3" or less at 50yds.
    An ALASKAN SHEEP HUNTER needs less than 3" at 350yds
    Last edited by Walks; 07-11-2018 at 12:27 AM.
    I HATE auto-correct

    Happiness is a Warm GUN & more ammo to shoot in it.

    My Experience and My Opinion, are just that, Mine.

    SASS #375 Life

  2. #22
    Boolit Master

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    we all do it our own way. not that it applies here, but i get so tired of hearing shooters *****, whine, and cry about how others enjoy their hobby.

  3. #23
    Boolit Master

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    I don't need no accuracy; I just like to make noise. Gimme my tacticool SKS with a couple 30 cal mag clips and the shoulder thingy that goes up, and I'm good!

  4. #24
    Boolit Master

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    I used to think that I should have a real accurate target rifle that could shoot tiny little groups, and then practice until I was really good. One day I realized that I didn't really enjoy it, and there really wasn't any practicality in it, for me at least. I quit, then and there. I still enjoy accurate shooting at times, within reason; I'm just not competitive about it. It's just not my thing.

    It's kind of like hunting. Absolutely nothing wrong with it; it's just not my thing. I didn't enjoy it so I quit doing it.

  5. #25
    Boolit Master

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    I know my off hand game is weak. So I reload and keep testing until i produce a consistent MOA group. MOA is my standard and anything tighter is just to brag. Now if i take an off hand shot and miss. I know beyond a reasonable doubt is was me and not the ammo. All my riffle make except 1 shots MOA. I haven't given up on it. Thrill of the chase and science is just as fun. Hand guns, as long as its better than factory and/or hit plates at 25 yards I am happy. If i sandbag the pistol and it groups 2-3 inches at 25 yards, then if i miss a plate its my fault.
    "Speak softly and carry a big stick; you will go far."
    ~Theodore Roosevelt~

  6. #26
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bazoo View Post
    So I figure... if either factory ammo or my reloads can do better than I can from the shooting positions I normally use, why worry about getting smaller groups from the bench.
    Errors are cumulative. If you and the rifle are both capable of making a 1½in. group at 100 yards, a 3in. group at that distance is what you get, and that isn't going to be reliable on a deer-sized animal at 350 yards, or through criss-crossing branches at closer range. The smaller the group, the better your chances, and as people have said, bench testing is the way to find the most accurate load. While you wouldn't want to fire a lot of shots until you know you are getting warm, ten-shot groups have a lot more than 3⅓ times the statistical validity of three-shot. The person who needs a 3in. group at 350 yards, particularly on something smaller than sheep, also needs to tell the difference between that and 375.

    There is a lot of truth, though, in what you say. Things like the ability to see and ease into a supported position without alarming game can be more valuable than absolute accuracy. The First World War sniper I knew in childhood (smaller, weaker and far shyer than the female soldiers of the present day, and convinced it was his Christian duty to send a German home alive to take his pension whenever he could) told me that almost anybody could shoot well enough. But he could enter a room and sit down without being noticed, and swore he could see gusts of wind walking around a quarter-mile away.

    It isn't that long since rifle makers would answer a complaint about a three-inch group by saying it was within their standards. Barrels (some of them) have been made as well as they are today for well over a century, and the improvement lies mostly in what amateur benchresters and the small bulletmakers who cater for them have prodded the major bullet firms into doing for us. But the benchresters also have a "don't do what we do" lesson for us. The ultimate accuracy is achieved by a perfect fit of case to chamber, so close it can't accommodate the slightest amount of dirt, and by a loose sliding fit of bullet to case neck. If something of that kind can go wrong, when the lion is about to eat you up, or the trophy of a lifetime is going to thumb his nose at you, is the time it will go wrong.
    Last edited by Ballistics in Scotland; 07-11-2018 at 04:08 AM.

  7. #27
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    2 inch groups at 300 yards are adequate if everything else is perfect. Add in wind and the fact your field shooting isn't going to usually be on a perfect rest and you may have to shoot when your a bit winded or your heart is beating a bit more or even just the stress that about everyone has when actually shooting a deer vs a piece of paper and every little bit of accuracy you can get out of your rifle is a big plus. Id much rather shoot a 1/2moa gun then a 2 moa gun under field conditions. It just gives you more latitude for the other things that can effect your shot placement. Personaly I want a gun that shoots at least 1.5 inch at a 100 yards if im know my shots might be out to 200 yards and inch or less if im looking at anything more then that. I do shoot a number of deer every year at 300 yards or more and I take it very seriously. I don't settle for adequate. I want my gun to shoot the very best it can. I do practice ALOT shooting in field positions. But its after im satisfied that the gun im using is the very best it can be. Even 300 yard shooting takes more then most who haven't done it understand. Its far from a chip shot. Economy is great. but I wouldn't take off to California tommarow with a car running fairly well. Id make sure it was at its best. A lot of this has to do with the way you hunt. If your sitting in a deer blind with a rest and a LONG shot is a 100 yards then I too wouldn't get to conserned about moa. But when I go out and shoot living animals at 300 yards or more I want only the best. If nothing else it gives me the peace of mind knowing that if I do make a poor shot its my fault not the guns.

  8. #28
    Boolit Buddy glockfan's Avatar
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    ^^^^^

    exactly.

    a loose gun at 100 gets you a 12 gauge past 200.

    i don't accept a gun that shoots anywhere. on top of that, i have some respect for the game i'm shooting at, i make a point of hitting it where it count.not in the butt,not in the legs,not in the jaws .......

    shot placement is a mark of respect toward the animal who gets you this rewarding delicious meat. at least that's how my hunting ethic goes by .

    i left many animals go away because i wasn't sure of either my shots ,or the animal stance-position. however i respect any point of view on this specific part.me i want to kill,not only wound ,then track , then kill.

  9. #29
    Boolit Master
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    I generally pistol shoot. I work up the best loads for each pistol off the bench with my pistol rest. But, once I've settled on a pet load then I practice my shooting either off hand or (blessed to live out in the Ozark hill country on a 100 acres of woods) by sitting on my porch steps shooting off a knee rest at cans and such for practice. Been shooting 32 S&W Long SWC's, 38 Special SWC's, and 44 Special SWC's. If you don't shoot off hand regularly you lose it pretty fast.

    My idea of perfection. Pet load - 6.8 grains Unique, CCI 300 primers, 240 grain Speer lead SWC. 15 yards off porch steps. I had done my range work way before this.
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    Last edited by JoeJames; 07-11-2018 at 09:44 AM.

  10. #30
    Boolit Grand Master Tripplebeards's Avatar
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    This way of thinking must be common on outskirts of my property. I have a lot of wounded deer running around dragging their legs, guts hanging out, or shot in the rear. I end up putting them out of their misery and scaring away Mr. big with the report after waiting quietly in the woods for hours on end. You as a marksman, owe it to yourself and out the respect to the game animal, need to practice,practice, practice, and ring every bit of accuracy out of what ever firearm you use...or you shouldn't be in the woods. I've had these conversations with hunters sitting on the boarders right outside my property, if they can't take time to sight in their rifle and or take time to make the perfect shot but they want to take/waste my time and ruin my hunt in the process to stomp all over my woods looking for a wounded animal. Guess what my answer is?

    Otherwise if all your doing is wasting your ammo on paper targets an your not a hunter go for it.
    Last edited by Tripplebeards; 07-11-2018 at 09:45 AM.

  11. #31
    Boolit Master
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    You don't NEED a bolt gun to shoot to 300+ yards accurately. A Henry or Savage 99 in 308 Win works just fine(there are others), but over 150 yards is jacketed bullet distance for most cast bullet considerations(trajectory and wind drift), no entourage with range finders, wind gauges and such. It is great to talk about about hitting claybirds and shotshells but the real truth about your skill is only revealed with paper targets. There are always those shots staring back at you that say " REALLY ? YOU MISSED! ! BIG TIME!!" then you can figure out what you did wrong. There more accuracy is considered, the better results for any shooting. Shooting shotshells at 50 feet does not make a good shot at 200 yards. Shotshells at 100 yards, maybe.

  12. #32
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by 500Linebaughbuck View Post
    i used to be "Accuracy is King". now, not so much. i have gotten rid of "varmint" rifles, except the 20 vartarg which goes 1/4 - 3/8" at 100 yards(5 shots/benched). i use cast boolits to kill my game(deer/bear) at about 200 yards, but 50 yards and less is more likely. i don't need sub minute rifle that can take the hair off a fly's right testicle at 1800 yards(it sure would be fun to do).

    for hunting large game, cast boolits about 2 or 3" at 100 yards.
    The fly might not think so!
    R.D.M.

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lloyd Smale View Post
    2 inch groups at 300 yards are adequate if everything else is perfect. Add in wind and the fact your field shooting isn't going to usually be on a perfect rest and you may have to shoot when your a bit winded or your heart is beating a bit more or even just the stress that about everyone has when actually shooting a deer vs a piece of paper and every little bit of accuracy you can get out of your rifle is a big plus. Id much rather shoot a 1/2moa gun then a 2 moa gun under field conditions. It just gives you more latitude for the other things that can effect your shot placement. Personaly I want a gun that shoots at least 1.5 inch at a 100 yards if im know my shots might be out to 200 yards and inch or less if im looking at anything more then that. I do shoot a number of deer every year at 300 yards or more and I take it very seriously. I don't settle for adequate. I want my gun to shoot the very best it can. I do practice ALOT shooting in field positions. But its after im satisfied that the gun im using is the very best it can be. Even 300 yard shooting takes more then most who haven't done it understand. Its far from a chip shot. Economy is great. but I wouldn't take off to California tommarow with a car running fairly well. Id make sure it was at its best. A lot of this has to do with the way you hunt. If your sitting in a deer blind with a rest and a LONG shot is a 100 yards then I too wouldn't get to conserned about moa. But when I go out and shoot living animals at 300 yards or more I want only the best. If nothing else it gives me the peace of mind knowing that if I do make a poor shot its my fault not the guns.
    Pretty much sums up my shooting/hunting as well
    [SIZE=4][B]Selling Hi Quality Powdercoating Powder

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  14. #34
    Boolit Master

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    I have a life long friend who is a hunter. He has hunting in his blood, and he’s good at it. He’s the type that gets his prey every hunt, whatever he’s hunting. He even hunts for a living as a government trapper.

    I’ve never known him to sit down with sandbags and shoot tiny little groups. The times we have, I can shoot better than him. Don’t get me wrong, he is a good shot, but when he sights his gun in its usually off the hood of his truck, shooting at a paper plate pinned to a stump. He’s a hunter, just not really a gun guy.

    If there’s a buck on the move a hundred yards away, he’ll drop it, whereas I wouldn’t even try. He has the confidence of an experienced hunter, where I gave up on hunting a long time ago. I guess I’m one of those losers who wastes ammo on paper targets, if you want to look at it that way.

    Admittedly the hunting around here is brushy and he probably doesn’t do a lot of 400+ yard shooting, and some time at a proper range doing some precision shooting would likely be beneficial for him, but I suspect that his practical hunting skills make up for a lot of that.

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackthorn View Post
    The fly might not think so!

    Fly Lives Matter!!!!!


  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by 500Linebaughbuck View Post
    Fly Lives Matter!!!!!

    Fly swatters matter
    [SIZE=4][B]Selling Hi Quality Powdercoating Powder

    I carry a Nuke50 because cleaning up the mess is Silly !!

    http://www.bing.com/search?q=nuke50&...7ADE&FORM=QBLH

    I am not crazy my mom had me tested

    Theres a fine line between genius and crazy .. I'm that line
    and depending on the day I might just step over that line !!!

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tripplebeards View Post
    This way of thinking must be common on outskirts of my property. I have a lot of wounded deer running around dragging their legs, guts hanging out, or shot in the rear. I end up putting them out of their misery and scaring away Mr. big with the report after waiting quietly in the woods for hours on end. You as a marksman, owe it to yourself and out the respect to the game animal, need to practice,practice, practice, and ring every bit of accuracy out of what ever firearm you use...or you shouldn't be in the woods. I've had these conversations with hunters sitting on the boarders right outside my property, if they can't take time to sight in their rifle and or take time to make the perfect shot but they want to take/waste my time and ruin my hunt in the process to stomp all over my woods looking for a wounded animal. Guess what my answer is?

    Otherwise if all your doing is wasting your ammo on paper targets an your not a hunter go for it.
    Had some property north of my place. 100 acres. I was walking in; heard 3 shotgun blasts not far off. I waited, and the feller came out of the brush carrying an 1100. "Get it?" I asked. "No, just making some sound shots", he replied. Neighbor and I posted it the next day.

  18. #38
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    I've been hunting with single shot rifles since the 70's. The longest range that I can go to sight in is 100 yards, and my Ruger#1B will put my handloads in a nickel sized group at 2" high @100 yards. It makes me happy. I haven't hunted in several years due to health issues. My NEF 30/30 ain't no slouch either, although I just kill paper with it. My youngest son has used it for several years before he bought his own. I also have ( or had, I can't find it yet ) an NEF .270 that my first 11 shots on game resulted in 11 DRT deer. I like my rifles to be accurate. I have no desire to look for a deer, I much prefer DRT.
    Now I can't pull one out of the woods due to the surgeries and stuff the doctors left in my body. If I get to go again I'll have to go with one of my sons...they are young and strong......
    Tom
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  19. #39
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    I like to wring as much accuracy out of each firearm I own, that requires a bench, once I know the firearm is capable, then I like to use as many positions off the bench. Then the only thing I can blame on a missed shot is me.
    "NUTS" A. Clement McAullife

  20. #40
    Boolit Grand Master Bazoo's Avatar
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    Thanks for all the replies. I havent considered that a tight shooting gun/ammo would be a psychological advantage.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check