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Thread: Reduced loads for cast 7.62x54r

  1. #1

    Reduced loads for cast 7.62x54r

    My Lee Second Edition reloading manual has formulae for reducing loads with a pressure factor and a velocity factor. Some of them use slow powders like H414. Has anyone tried this for cast successfully? I really don't want an explosion from too little powder...

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  2. #2
    Boolit Master


    nagantguy's Avatar
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    Have you looked into unique and or red dot loads? Very fun and accurate caliber to shoot reduced loads in, great for pests and teaching new shooters.

  3. #3
    I'm wanting to get somewhat faster velocities than Red Dot and Unique can give me.

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  4. #4
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    JonB_in_Glencoe's Avatar
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    My Lee Second Edition reloading manual has formulae for reducing loads with a pressure factor and a velocity factor.
    Is this formula specific to 7.62x54r?
    Does the Lee 2nd Ed have cast boolit data for 7.62x54r?

    If Unique isn't fast enough, then I suspect many of the loads in Lyman's castbullet Handbook #3 or #4 should fit your needs.

  5. #5
    Boolit Master


    Larry Gibson's Avatar
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    Second the suggestion to get a Lyman CBH, #3 or #4.

    Do search here on the cartridge and rifle and you'll find a wealth of information.

    Lee's formula works sometimes, sometimes not.

    What bullet do you have in mind? What velocity?
    Larry Gibson

    “Deficient observation is merely a form of ignorance and responsible for the many morbid notions and foolish ideas prevailing.”
    ― Nikola Tesla

  6. #6
    Larry, I was hoping you would reply.

    I have the Lyman 3rd on my phone, but information is scant for 7.62x54r. I have 311284 boolits (but not the mold), and I have the Lee 312-185-1R and 312-160-2R molds. I have read that with the twist rate of a Mosin, a heavier boolit is better, but with Red Dot and Unique, book velocity maxes out around 1400 with the 311284 and 1500ish with the other 2. I tried the minimum load of 27 gr IMR 4227 and it appeared to push them faster than book value because of the splashed lead all over the bayonet on my M44. I don't own a Chronograph, so I can only guess at speed based on book value.

    I want around 1700 to 1800. I've been informed that the Red Dot and Unique loads are too slow for potential hunting of small hogs and deer.
    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Gibson View Post
    Second the suggestion to get a Lyman CBH, #3 or #4.

    Do search here on the cartridge and rifle and you'll find a wealth of information.

    Lee's formula works sometimes, sometimes not.

    What bullet do you have in mind? What velocity?
    Sent from my SM-J320V using Tapatalk
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  7. #7
    Boolit Master Outpost75's Avatar
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    Ball powders such as H414 don't tolerate reduced loads below about 80%.The extruded or "stick" powders do much better.

    Best would be something in the range of 4198, RL7 or 3031 with 60-70%% of a full charge, but you can use 4895, 4064, RL15, Varget reduced to 75% of a full charge.

    I would use a weighed 1 grain tuft of Dacron filler tucked loosely into the case neck to occupy some of the free airspace.

    DO NOT! push the Dacron down against the powder!!!!
    The ENEMY is listening.
    HE wants to know what YOU know.
    Keep it to yourself.

  8. #8
    Boolit Master rsrocket1's Avatar
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    Try a reduced load of fast rifle powder like Reloader 7 or 3031. I use Red Dot, Titegroup, 800-X and Unique in my low recoil 91/30 loads with the Lee C312-185-1R beagled up to .315" and sized to 0.314". I use 26-33g RL7 to tame my .308 using the Lee C309-170-F to 2000 and 2400 fps respectively.

    I was out yesterday shooting LT-30 powder with the same bullets getting 2100-2200 but need more load development with that powder. All these fast rifle powders worked fine and filled the .308 cases to about 70% capacity so there was not much chance for the mythical "SEE/detonation" dragon to raise its ugly head. I know LT-30 is an "expensive" bench rest powder but I got a bunch on sale at $20/# and am looking for a way to burn it up. It has about the same speed as RL7 so it should work well for moderate speed cast loads.

  9. #9
    Boolit Master
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    The old Ed Harris load of 16 gr of 2400 is hard to beat. I always start with 16 gr and work up by one gr increments until accuracy falls off. With a 50/50 alloy that will probably be around 1800 fps.
    Ive killed several deer and coyotes with 30-30, 30-40, and 30-06 pushed to 1800 fps with 2400. It works very well.
    A slightly slower powder like 4759, 5744 or reloader 7 may get you a little higher velocity before accuracy falls off.
    You can google ( the load ) by Ed Harris. I had about given up on cast until I read it. Now I shoot very little else. I often shoot other powders but 2400 is my standby.
    Some people live and learn but I mostly just live

  10. #10
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    ShooterAZ's Avatar
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    I have been using the 314407 boolit from Noe in my Mosin Nagant. With 16 grains of 2400 it shoots quite well. A member here sent me some 314299 boolits to try out. I have a bunch loaded but I haven't been able to try them yet because the forest has been closed due to fire restrictions. It's supposed to reopen at 8:00 am Wednesday 7/11 so I need to get out and shoot. Haven't been able to shoot since May!

  11. #11
    I don't have 2400. I do have Red Dot and Unique. Maybe I'll just stick with those and the velocity restrictions involved.

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  12. #12
    Boolit Master
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    http://marvinstuart.com/firearm/Manu...-%20Reduce.pdf
    Scroll to page 199
    Unique and a 160grainer will get 1700 at max.

  13. #13
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    Here is a link to the Ed Harris article: Cast Bullet Loads for Military Rifles

    http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...Rifles-Article

    I have found it quite useful.

  14. #14
    Boolit Master


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    The C312-185-1R shoots excellently in my Finn M39 SAKO. When I use it I load it over 28.5 gr 4895 and use a dacron filler. I cast the bullets out of COWW + 2% tin or, for absolute best accuracy, #2 alloy. I use Hornady GCs, lube with 2500+ and size .312 in a Lyman 450. Case are Norma and are NSd with a .308W Lee collet die. Velocity runs 1850 fps with excellent accuracy.
    Larry Gibson

    “Deficient observation is merely a form of ignorance and responsible for the many morbid notions and foolish ideas prevailing.”
    ― Nikola Tesla

  15. #15
    Boolit Master


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    That 28.5 gr load will work for just about any cast bullet in the Mosin.

  16. #16
    Boolit Man
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    The most accurate load I worked up for my Mosin was 17.5 grs. 4759 under the Lee 185 gr. bullet and lit with a Remington 9 1/2 primer. My best group was .490 at 50 yds off a rest; its really cool when you measure the cluster and subtract the bullet diameter......................

  17. #17
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    I finally got a chance to try out the Noe 314299 boolits a member sent me, sized .314 and lubed with 2500+. I loaded some up with 19.0 gr of SR4759, and 21 grains of 5744. I got similar results as Ray's post above, very tight groups with both loads. Unfortunately Noe doesn't have that particular mold in stock right now, so I just ordered the Accurate Molds version with the flat point (31-200L). Diameter .315/.304. Hopefully it shoots as well as the Noe boolit...

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check