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Thread: Justified Suicide Yes/No/Depends?

  1. #61
    Boolit Buddy dh2's Avatar
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    I have had this discussion with my Grandfather when my Grandmother was going down hill ( Now passed ) I have not been able to answer this question for my self even if it was about my self. In years past we did care for my Mother in-law in our home ,Alzheimer's is a terrible thing to watch any one go through . To take an action to end a life I could not, We did get Hospice to give some help mostly in how to let her go with out extending her misery. Some state have a death with dignity law I would be all in favor of this if the person has the ability to know what they want and go through with it there self. I would say that have your beloved family pet put down if there life was more suffering than living, Why would your loved one have to go through a miserable end. I would say every one will have to determine your state on it with God, As for me if my life gets to that point , keep the pain down the best you can and let me die, when God says it is my time.

  2. #62
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    God has promised us that He'd never put more on us than we can bear. However, I HAVE a few times, wondered where He got so much faith in me, though! Pain is the result of sin. It always has been, and always shall be. We make most of our own pains ourselves.

  3. #63
    Boolit Master

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    Come on now, BW -- we all have secrets, but have you really been such a sinful and evil person that you deserve(d) great pain? And what about the innocent little kids that get cancer and incurable diseases? What did they do? Your statement about pain being the result of sin won't hold water.

  4. #64
    Boolit Buddy
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    I not sure where you derive that from BW. Pain is the result of life in this corrupted world. Yep, pain and suffering entered God's perfect creation and corrupted it by sin. There is too much underserved pain to lay it at the feet of the individual though.

  5. #65
    Boolit Master

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    Or, let's look at it this way. Pain CAN BE caused by sin. For example, the mental and emotional pain caused by marital infidelity. The actual physical pain suffered by a victim of a physical assault. It can be said with certainty that pain is a cause and effect situation. All pain has a cause, but as in the previously cited case of small children with serious pain causing diseases, NOT ALL pain has sin as its origin. Slipping and falling off a roof can hurt a lot, but where is the sin?

  6. #66
    Boolit Buddy Remmy4477's Avatar
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    I don't know on this one.
    My second to the youngest son tried suicide several years ago, survived. Made a full recovery and is now doing very well in life. Made a mess of my family for a while however.

    Had a grandmother commit suicide, she was in her 40's, way before I was born. From what I was told no ryhm no reason for it, she was just done living. Sad.

    I had a half Brother who wasted his life with drugs, He overdosed and passed 10 years ago. There was no saving him!

    My mother, I lost her 7 years ago. She had Parkinsons, horrible at the end! That is one disease I'd line up against a wall and put out of everyones missery if it was possible!
    Mom wanted out while she still had some thoughts left, Doctors kept her alive as long as they could, Why??

    I don't know guys?? Suicide assisted or not, life is way short as it is? I guess it depends on the circumstance, the family, Could I, NO. It was hard enough when god took mom.

    I leave life and death in Gods hands, If it was up to me I'd live forever and make my kids nutz!!

  7. #67
    Boolit Buddy

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    It is hard to watch some one you love just waste away. Have put sick animals down when they were suffering, but animals do not have souls. Believe suicide is unforgeable sin, because if you kill yourself you have no chance of asking God to forgive you for committing suicide. This is my believe.

  8. #68
    Boolit Buddy sawinredneck's Avatar
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    Can you not ask for forivness before or during the commitment of a sin?
    Quote Originally Posted by sniper View Post
    Irish Proverb: Never approach a Bull from the front, a horse from the rear, or an Idiot from any direction!

  9. #69
    Boolit Buddy

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    If your body is a vessel for God how could you willfully destroy it, and ask for forgiveness before or during killing it?

  10. #70
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    No kind and benevolent being - IMO - would want another to live longer in horrid pain with no hope of reprieve EVER, because of their belief system; That is just too akin to sadism. (Not talking hangnail pain here, talking pain where the suffering person has zero quality of life, debilitating pain where they cannot do anything besides trying to handle that overwhelming pain.) I don't much like the thought of suicide, but I detest the idea of forcing someone to live in such horrid pain that they see death as a desirable release even more.

  11. #71
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    Coming back here again for another look, I realize that most of our answers were based on what WE want. And what we want is for everything to always be easy and not difficult. However, we learn most when engaged in battle with serious results to ensue! So basically, we really LIKE staying dumb and dumbed down, when you get right down to it, and our likes and dislikes are part of what keeps us from being less than what we could and probably were intended to be.

    Suicide involves some sort of suffering, either active or passive (boredom, which is a rare cause of suicide, but does happen). So of course we might think of suicide, when in more pain than we think we can bear. But is it God's will or our own that we do that? I come down on the side that says it's of our own volition.

    G. K. Chesterton said a suicide wasn't merely killing his or her self, but all the world around them! And I see his point. It's a total rejection of the world for that person at that time, taking out the good along with the bad. Only humans can do this, I believe. I believe suicide is wrong, almost always in the sight of God, but .... there's that troubling and seemingly countering incident where the Romans surrounded the Jews on the mountain, and were steadily making progress that promised that all the Jews would be killed soon. So the Jews decided not to give the Romans the victory, and they decided to all take their own lives by cutting each other's throats. And so they did. And that was with God's consent, apparently!

    So I have become humble enough to say "I don't know" when I truly don't know, and with regard to this question of suicide, I can only say "I'm not really sure," because I DO think it's generally not in accord with God's will, but a work of our own devising, I'm not entirely sure it's NEVER allowable. I'm not entirely sure it's EVER allowable either, though! So .... it looks like I've got a lot more studying and thinking and reading to do. Which is probably what we all need to more of as well.

    I can't see where anything good can ever come from putting down those who we THINK have erred. More study will, however, ALWAYS be more edifying and productive of good things.

    I wish I understood just what it is that makes us think we HAVE to have an answer for everything? We are dumb, lazy, willful creatures that act like cattle when reacting in large numbers. I really think we could alleviate much of our own suffering if we lost our thirst for thinking we're "better" than others by putting them down, and just let God have some questions, and let Him do the deciding. We have a wonderful guide for basing our behavior, attitudes and thoughts in the Bible. I wish we didn't abuse it the way we do sometimes.

  12. #72
    Boolit Master Hannibal's Avatar
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    I have come to believe that most of the chronic illness which seems ever more prevalent is a result of original sin. Immortality was stripped from Adam and Eve as a result of their conscience decisions/actions. The introduction of flaws is the logical method of rendering their bodies no longer immortal. These flaws have been passed along, generation after generation. It comes as no surprise to me that the flaws would manifest themselves in ever more devastating and diverse diseases.
    I am of the opinion that suicide is always the act of one who is not of sound mind. And I also believe that all of us suffer events in our lives that cause us to think irrationally for periods of time. For some, it is apparently more than they can bear.
    And I also think only God is capable of judging any soul. So I do not spend any of my time contemplating the just/ unjust/sin of suicide. I spend my time mourning the departure of those I knew and loved.

    The rest is left to God.
    Missing the target is not the worst thing you can do.
    Not taking the shot is.

  13. #73
    Boolit Master

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    Man...I sure like and respect these last two answers. Blackwater -- I guess you could say, "The older I get the less I know." I am fully in agreement with your statements about "NEVER" and "EVER." Hannibal -- I also mourn those who have left us, and do not really figure HOW into the equation.

  14. #74
    Boolit Buddy
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    Quote Originally Posted by Der Gebirgsjager View Post
    Man...I sure like and respect these last two answers. Blackwater -- I guess you could say, "The older I get the less I know." I am fully in agreement with your statements about "NEVER" and "EVER." Hannibal -- I also mourn those who have left us, and do not really figure HOW into the equation.
    Amen!

  15. #75
    Boolit Master popper's Avatar
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    https://www.thoughtco.com/suicide-and-the-bible-701953
    Pretty good scriptural coverage of the subject.
    We people are all sinners and for the most part don't take sin very seriously. Those who accept the gift of salvation from God have every one of their sins blotted out. There are still consequences to our life style, some are not 'fun'.
    Many suicides and attempts are for attention/manipulation. Many have coping/depression problems and need help. Some are basically 'bad' life style choices like O.D.
    In bible study this morning, the question was posed - to give an answer to fellow who decided to trade in his wife for a 'new' model and would God forgive him. How would you answer. My answer, probably not well received would be yes, you are stupid and yes, you are still stupid! This is NOT a question about divorce but why the divorce (and when the 'new' model gets tired of the 'old' model, what is next?). There are always consequences! Newton's law of physics.
    Whatever!

  16. #76
    Boolit Buddy tryNto's Avatar
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    If a person freely chose to kill themselves, fully knowing that they were saying “no” to God, and they died unrepentantly, all signs point to eternal separation from God. But here’s the deal: we don’t know a lot of that information. I don’t know if they may have suffered from “grave psychological disturbances, anguish, or grave fear of hardship, suffering, or torture”…these can lessen their reasonability. I also don’t know their degree of knowledge; did they know that they were not simply “escaping pain”, but were, in fact, choosing something contrary to God’s love? And lastly, none of us have any way of knowing if they repented before death. There is an ancient saying, “We don’t know what happened between the bridge and the water”. This is indicating that you and I have no clue if the person regretted their decision and turned back to God at the last minute. There are stories of many people who survived attempted suicides, who found themselves praying that God didn’t let them die even after they jumped, or swallowed the pills, or whatever.

    It doesn't matter to me the path they choose to walk with God or Jesus. We will all walk the staircase to Judgement and those that be saved will know all the answers. I say, why to give-in to the worldly ways of Why this and Why that and to pretend to know the ways of God. I grieve for the Dead and have compassion for those left behind. I walk my walk and try to help where and whenever I can.
    Casting, Reloading & Shooting

  17. #77
    Boolit Mold
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    My 2 cents on the original question:

    As for assisted suicide, the Bible is clear that killing someone outside of war or governmental punishment is murder. Take a look at the judgment meted out to the man who claimed to help King Saul commit suicide. He received the judgment of a murderer. Ending a life is a decision that God reserves for himself to decide.

    As for the eternal destiny of someone who commits suicide: The key to this question is really the answer to the question, "How does someone get to heaven," and "Can I lose my salvation?" People are save from the punishment of their sins by faith in the substitutionary death of Jesus on the cross, not by having a life that is "good enough." As it is, none of us is good enough to merit our place in heaven with God. It is only by faith, through God's grace. Ephesians 2:8-9 make this pretty clear. Suicide is not what sends people to hell, failing to put your faith in Jesus does. The second question is related. If we are not good enough to earn our salvation, and it is all because of God's grace, then we cannot lose it either. It wasn't my work that earned it, it was Jesus'. It isn't my work that keeps it, it is all a work of God.

    That being said, suicide is never an appropriate way out, and yes, it is a sin. Just like assisting a suicide, suicide is also a form of murder - to yourself. I truly believe that God is deeply grieved when someone believes that there is no way out of life's troubles, because He wants to be that way out for us. He wants to carry us through the pain and turmoil. He wants to mend our brokenness, etc.

    TJ

  18. #78
    Boolit Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by popper View Post
    https://www.thoughtco.com/suicide-and-the-bible-701953
    Pretty good scriptural coverage of the subject.
    We people are all sinners and for the most part don't take sin very seriously. Those who accept the gift of salvation from God have every one of their sins blotted out. There are still consequences to our life style, some are not 'fun'.
    Many suicides and attempts are for attention/manipulation. Many have coping/depression problems and need help. Some are basically 'bad' life style choices like O.D.
    In bible study this morning, the question was posed - to give an answer to fellow who decided to trade in his wife for a 'new' model and would God forgive him. How would you answer. My answer, probably not well received would be yes, you are stupid and yes, you are still stupid! This is NOT a question about divorce but why the divorce (and when the 'new' model gets tired of the 'old' model, what is next?). There are always consequences! Newton's law of physics.
    I agree with this entirely, and it's worthy of it's own thread. You can't fix stupid, and adultery has its own penalties -- just not obvious to some. Guys who trade in their wives for newer models tend to become increasingly impoverished, and satisfied with their lots for shorter periods of time. Families suffer.

  19. #79
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    Hunting Pastor, I understand your position perfectly, I believe. But what then of those Jews who committed suicide on the Mtn. surrounded by the Romans, who were obviously about to storm the place and kill them, one and all? Did God condemn them for the suicides and assisted suicides? Or did He, in His infinite wisdom and mercy, recognize that they were using their deaths to make a statement, and thumb their noses at the Romans in a rather definitive, if fatal way?

    Things like this are what keeps me vascillating, and keeping me humble enough to not pass judgment on other believers and some who may or may not be true believers. I'll leave all that sort of decisions up to Christ, who knows things that I don't, and CAN'T know. It just seems to be what is most warranted in this matter. If we ever get too "high and mighty" to fail to be humble enough to say "I don't know," then I think we're on a path AWAY from God, and not toward Him. YMMV, but that's my take on it, personally ... so far, at least.

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