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Thread: Justified Suicide Yes/No/Depends?

  1. #21
    Boolit Master
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    A good guy I know grew up in a foreign country, in one bad sect of Christianity. Too many of the men there, "Like" little boys, and we're not talking friendly liking. We're talking offering other boys gifts for bringing them fresh victims, and drugging them, etc. In that religion, any man who's had relations with another male, even if they were a child and drugged (as these JERKS do), is going to hell; So one day my friend called me, at about 3am, saying he was going to kill himself, and why; His faith said he was going to hell anyways, so he might as well go TONIGHT, was his thought. And he had some serious emotional pain going on. I managed to talk him into staying, though his plan then became smoking himself to death. (That's a lot slower method of suicide... LOTS more time for healing that way. Last I heard he was still with us.)

    People get dealt really REALLY bad hands and cannot cope; Sometimes they are lucky and someone else knows how to help and care enough to improve things somewhat, it doesn't FIX things but it helps them cope better. I don't "like" suicide, but, it's their life and their pain - And not my decision; If asked, though, I will do my darndest to HELP, to make their situation tenable, and to let them know that someone CARES and is trying HARD to help! Sometimes knowing that someone else appreciates them and is sad that their plate is this full of horrid stuff, helps a lot - Especially compared to feeling "No one cares!" as that's a really horrid lonely feeling.

    A friend of mine in current day's been having a BAD time, 2 different people have tried to kill them (and near succeeded) and one abused them horribly. I'm doing what I can to help; There is always someone out there hurting, sadly.

    I cannot see a merciful God being unable to understand how much pain someone was in, if they had bone cancer or the like and suicide was the only thing they could do to escape; We all know we humans make mistakes, but - in exceptional circumstances when people are in pain, some leeway for them wanting to NOT hurt, seems pretty merciful.

  2. #22
    Boolit Master
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    All of this conversation saddens me and confirms my thought that only God can give us the answer we're seeking. I for one am simply not wise enough. GW
    "If you can walk with crowds and keep your virtue,
    Or walk with Kings, nor lose the common touch,
    Yours is the earth and everything that's in it,
    And, which is more, you'll be a man my son!" R. Kipling

    "Brother to a Prince, and fellow to a pauper, if found worthy." Kipling

  3. #23
    Boolit Master


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    I see suicide in two camps. People who are unable to cope with life and want to leave it....they are weak in spirit and do not know God. Then there are those enduring horrible pain. Although the destination is the same, the journey is vastly different.
    Don Verna

    NRA Endowment Member

  4. #24
    Boolit Master Hannibal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Char-Gar View Post
    I have been asked by families what they should do in cases similar to your father. My advice has always been, when medical care does not prolong living, but only prolongs dying, it is time to let nature take it's course.
    I appreciate the ability to communicate complex thinking with minimal words. I completely agree with what you said here.
    I hope you don't mind, but I plan to use this in the future when this discussion arises.
    Missing the target is not the worst thing you can do.
    Not taking the shot is.

  5. #25
    Boolit Mold
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    Quote Originally Posted by glockfan View Post
    look at holland!! anyone who hit 65 and is in good health have the right to ask euthanasia....you feel alone,with no positive expectations in life? easy.mercy killing!!
    That's absolute BS (I have no other word for it), apparently liberals are not the only ones falling for fake news.

  6. #26
    Boolit Master

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    At one time I thought suicide would help me if my ex-wife could make it work for herself.
    But, now I want her to live a long and miserable life she's trapped into with this guy she's married to now.
    Even now, I know suicide wouldn't end my suffering. I'm glad she never thought of it.


    Oops, forgot the purple fonts!!!
    Political correctness is a national suicide pact.

    I am a sovereign individual, accountable
    only to God and my own conscience.

  7. #27
    Boolit Master sawinredneck's Avatar
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    I have another perspective, I actually posed this very question not long ago on this very forum, “When are you done?” I believe in deep theological also?
    I’m pushing 49, 25yrs of marriage to a wonderful woman and a 13yo son, the two reasons I’m still here!
    I’ve battled severe depression my entire life, never wanted to get married and had no intention to live to thirty. I had no plans or desires, I just muddled through waiting for my end. It came down to my wife, girlfriend at the time, was going to leave me if I didn’t marry her and I was smart enough to see she was the best thing that would happen to me if I didn’t marry her.
    We had a terrible marriage! I was awful, shut everyone out, was mean, didn’t understand why, but I hated life and everything about it! She was forced to do what she thought was unforgivable but I found a great shrink, got a lot of help, and ANSWERS! People with depression don’t know they have it! We think everyone else feels this way but they just cope better and we can’t understand why we can’t!
    It was hard, we’ve rebuilt our marriage, I’ve had to reach out for help a few times, but I’ve managed the depression, until ten years ago. I broke my back, upper and lower injuries, no surgical procedure to fix it, no real pain management for it. I just recently came of Fentynal. I scream in pain while I sleep, when I do sleep. I’m up for days when the weather changes, I literally watched, and talked to, a neighbor when he left, then came home for each of his three twelve hour shifts. “You haven’t been to sleep yet, have you?” “Nope.” I average 3-4 hours a night, when things go well!
    I’m tired! I hurt in ways people can’t understand! Two years ago my wife finally drug me to the Drs office after three days of throwing up. We got there, he asked if my wife was with me and told her to take me straight to the ER! The booze and Fentynal had shut down my pancreas.
    Last year, on my sons birthday I finally broke down and asked my wife to take me to the ER because I hurt so bad! She figured it would be quick and dirty because it couldn’t be that bad. I got there at 11:30am, I was in surgery at 7:30pm having my appendix removed. The surgeon said it was one of the worst she'd seen, I was hours away from a rupture.
    This is what I deal with every day, my pain level is ignorant to say the least!
    I keep clinging on and fighting, but I get more tired and it just gets harder every day!
    I understand and completely respect it’s hard on the families, that’s one promise I’ve made to my wife, neither she or my son will be the ones to find me! Just imagine having to have a rational conversation with your wife, of 25yrs, about your suicide!
    I honestly don’t know how much is left of me, I don’t want to feel I’ve let anyone down, but I can assure you, when you’ve walked in that persons shoes it’s very hard to call them weak or a coward!
    I lost a friend last summer, exmilitay, PTSD forced him into suicide. The VA didn’t offer the services he needed or just didn’t have the time to try. He put a bullet in his head to silence the demons.
    Please, always remember, there’s more going on than you know.
    Quote Originally Posted by sniper View Post
    Irish Proverb: Never approach a Bull from the front, a horse from the rear, or an Idiot from any direction!

  8. #28
    Boolit Master

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    Lord, I thought I had it bad.
    I wake up -when I do sleep- with a level 4-5 amount of pain everyday and it usually gets worse from there.
    I won't say I know how you feel, I don't.
    For me there are too many good things in life to just chuck it all and end it.
    In 1981 I had a barn fall on me. I had many broken bones and a skull fracture. The Dr. told my wife that I wouldn't last more than an hour, he had no hope at all for me for 9 days until my vital signs stabilized. Before leaving the hospital he told me I'd never work again and was ready to put me on permanent disability . But, I'm one of those kind of people who never gives up. I know my limitations and most times push myself too much.
    It's better for me to set my limitations a little bit more than a little less. Life is good, something you just have to kick the bushes to flush it out!
    Political correctness is a national suicide pact.

    I am a sovereign individual, accountable
    only to God and my own conscience.

  9. #29
    Boolit Master Char-Gar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hannibal View Post
    I appreciate the ability to communicate complex thinking with minimal words. I completely agree with what you said here.
    I hope you don't mind, but I plan to use this in the future when this discussion arises.
    It is not original with me. I heard Dr. Elizabeth Kubler-Ross say it in a seminar I attended back in the early 80's.
    Disclaimer: The above is not holy writ. It is just my opinion based on my experience and knowledge. Your mileage may vary.

  10. #30
    Boolit Master Hannibal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Char-Gar View Post
    It is not original with me. I heard Dr. Elizabeth Kubler-Ross say it in a seminar I attended back in the early 80's.
    I see. Well, it's the best way to put what I've thought for many years that I've ever seen or heard.
    Missing the target is not the worst thing you can do.
    Not taking the shot is.

  11. #31
    Boolit Master glockfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xrayfk05 View Post
    That's absolute BS (I have no other word for it), apparently liberals are not the only ones falling for fake news.
    ..

    ........

    In 2016, the Dutch Health Minister of the Second Rutte cabinet announced plans to draft a law that would allow assisted suicide in cases without a terminal illness, if the person feels they have completed life.[14]

  12. #32
    Boolit Master Char-Gar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hannibal View Post
    I see. Well, it's the best way to put what I've thought for many years that I've ever seen or heard.
    Yes, I wrote it down when she said it. I have used to many time with people making decision about whether or not to continue medical care. It reduces what for most, is a very complex decision down to something quite manageable.
    Disclaimer: The above is not holy writ. It is just my opinion based on my experience and knowledge. Your mileage may vary.

  13. #33
    Boolit Master
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    Working in it every day, I see it's not usually that the patient isn't ready to go, it's the family isn't ready to let them go. Our saying,"Jesus is calling, but they won't let them answer the phone! ". We are able to keep humans "alive" long after their expiration date with modern medical devices and procedures, yet there are many who believe if you don't do everything humanly possible to prolong the physical life, it amounts to murder. My MIL wouldn't sign an advanced directive for my FIL, said " I Just can't sign his death certificate". When she was diagnosed with pulmonary fibrosis that was advancing, she being of sound mind, refused all mechanical devices, respirators, and dialysis, then went into hospice. I heard her pray to God to take her quickly, and she passed 5 years ago tomorrow. We miss her, but are good with her choice. We've seen people rot away while on artificial life support as a family refused to let them go. This isn't suicide!

    Does anyone have any scriptural evidence that self murder is a forgivable sin? Some times I'm amazed at the things that aren't directly addressed in the word. Perhaps they where so universally understood that there wasn't a need to include, or that it just don't matter in the end.

  14. #34
    Boolit Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thundarstick View Post
    Does anyone have any scriptural evidence that self murder is a forgivable sin?
    "And so I tell you, every kind of sin and slander can be forgiven, but blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven." Matthew 12:31

  15. #35
    Boolit Master
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    13 years ago my father suffered a massive heart attack while at home. It was around 7 miles to the hospital and he was "shocked" 5 times by the E.M.T. to the E.R. Even at the E.R. he was shocked again. As an only child it was left to me to make the decision as my mother was near basket case and could only look at me to make the choice. I said if he starts going down again to let him go as I know that is what he would have wanted, not drag it out. He passed on early the next morning. I believe I made the right decision but will only know for sure when I next meet him.

  16. #36
    Boolit Master
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    I think that this is a foolishly obvious question. Boil it down. Simplify.
    Is it not God who determines the times and ways for men to die? If you do not believe that it is God's decision, do you really believe in God? The Bible says, "fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom". I think that every person who thinks that it is for the person to decide when they will die, has no fear of God. And therefore those of you who opt for suicide being an ok thing to do, Have NOT EVEN THE BEGINNING OF WISDOM. If you take offense to this...GOOD. I mean it to be offensive.
    AKA hans.pcguy

  17. #37
    Boolit Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by Traffer View Post
    I think that this is a foolishly obvious question. Boil it down. Simplify.
    Is it not God who determines the times and ways for men to die?
    Observation shows either this idea is incorrect or that God is merciless. Did God determine that a six-year-old boy would be neglected and tortured over the entire course of his short life and then die of his wounds? Did God determine that 6 million Jews would die in the Holocaust? Did God determine that an obese person would die at the age of 40 after overeating for decades? The examples are endless.

    Man has free will to abuse himself and others. God does not control peoples' actions and never said he would except in extremely rare cases. He did promise to be with his children at all times and get them through whatever comes.

  18. #38
    Boolit Master Char-Gar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thundarstick View Post
    Working in it every day, I see it's not usually that the patient isn't ready to go, it's the family isn't ready to let them go. Our saying,"Jesus is calling, but they won't let them answer the phone! ".
    I

    I have seen them same thing from a different angle. I see family trying to encourage their loved ones to fight on and in doing so makes them feel guilty for dying. i.e. "Moma you can't die now, because your grandchildren need you.

    Not only must the family be willing to let go, but communicate that with the loved one. i.e. "Moma we sure will miss you, but your have done a good job with us and we will be OK." Giving a person permission to die makes it much easier for everybody.
    Disclaimer: The above is not holy writ. It is just my opinion based on my experience and knowledge. Your mileage may vary.

  19. #39
    Boolit Master
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    I believe that God knows every struggle, every pain, of every person that he has ever created. The sad thing to me is that so many NEVER turn to him.
    ◄ Psalm 107 ►
    English Standard Version
    Let the Redeemed of the LORD Say So

    1Oh give thanks to the LORD, for he is good,
    for his steadfast love endures forever!
    2Let the redeemed of the LORD say so,
    whom he has redeemed from troublea
    3and gathered in from the lands,
    from the east and from the west,
    from the north and from the south.

    4Some wandered in desert wastes,
    finding no way to a city to dwell in;
    5hungry and thirsty,
    their soul fainted within them.
    6Then they cried to the LORD in their trouble,
    and he delivered them from their distress.
    7He led them by a straight way
    till they reached a city to dwell in.
    8Let them thank the LORD for his steadfast love,
    for his wondrous works to the children of man!
    9For he satisfies the longing soul,
    and the hungry soul he fills with good things.

    10Some sat in darkness and in the shadow of death,
    prisoners in affliction and in irons,
    11for they had rebelled against the words of God,
    and spurned the counsel of the Most High.
    12So he bowed their hearts down with hard labor;
    they fell down, with none to help.
    13Then they cried to the LORD in their trouble,
    and he delivered them from their distress.
    14He brought them out of darkness and the shadow of death,
    and burst their bonds apart.
    15Let them thank the LORD for his steadfast love,
    for his wondrous works to the children of man!
    16For he shatters the doors of bronze
    and cuts in two the bars of iron.

    17Some were fools through their sinful ways,
    and because of their iniquities suffered affliction;
    18they loathed any kind of food,
    and they drew near to the gates of death.
    19Then they cried to the LORD in their trouble,
    and he delivered them from their distress.
    20He sent out his word and healed them,
    and delivered them from their destruction.
    21Let them thank the LORD for his steadfast love,
    for his wondrous works to the children of man!
    22And let them offer sacrifices of thanksgiving,
    and tell of his deeds in songs of joy!

    23Some went down to the sea in ships,
    doing business on the great waters;
    24they saw the deeds of the LORD,
    his wondrous works in the deep.
    25For he commanded and raised the stormy wind,
    which lifted up the waves of the sea.
    26They mounted up to heaven; they went down to the depths;
    their courage melted away in their evil plight;
    27they reeled and staggered like drunken men
    and were at their wits’ end.b
    28Then they cried to the LORD in their trouble,
    and he delivered them from their distress.
    29He made the storm be still,
    and the waves of the sea were hushed.
    30Then they were glad that the watersc were quiet,
    and he brought them to their desired haven.
    31Let them thank the LORD for his steadfast love,
    for his wondrous works to the children of man!
    32Let them extol him in the congregation of the people,
    and praise him in the assembly of the elders.

    33He turns rivers into a desert,
    springs of water into thirsty ground,
    34a fruitful land into a salty waste,
    because of the evil of its inhabitants.
    35He turns a desert into pools of water,
    a parched land into springs of water.
    36And there he lets the hungry dwell,
    and they establish a city to live in;
    37they sow fields and plant vineyards
    and get a fruitful yield.
    38By his blessing they multiply greatly,
    and he does not let their livestock diminish.

    39When they are diminished and brought low
    through oppression, evil, and sorrow,
    40he pours contempt on princes
    and makes them wander in trackless wastes;
    41but he raises up the needy out of affliction
    and makes their families like flocks.
    42The upright see it and are glad,
    and all wickedness shuts its mouth.

    43Whoever is wise, let him attend to these things;
    let them consider the steadfast love of the LORD.
    AKA hans.pcguy

  20. #40
    Boolit Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by Char-Gar View Post
    I
    Not only must the family be willing to let go, but communicate that with the loved one. i.e. "Moma we sure will miss you, but your have done a good job with us and we will be OK." Giving a person permission to die makes it much easier for everybody.
    This statement contains a lot of truth and wisdom.

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