ADvertise hereMidSouth Shooters SupplyStainLess Steel MediaInline Fabrication
Titan ReloadingRotoMetals2Lee PrecisionGraf & Sons

Page 6 of 6 FirstFirst 123456
Results 101 to 109 of 109

Thread: Why am I having trouble chambering cartridges in my 1886?

  1. #101
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Western Washington
    Posts
    61
    Quote Originally Posted by Kev18 View Post
    A little unrelated to the thread but anyone know what the original sight was on 1886's? What type of rear sight did they come out of the factory with. I put a peep on mine and added the sight that was with the rifle at the time of purchase.I read the standard models came out with buckhorns (semi buckhorns?) and that the other models/custom orders had different sights added, like peep or ladder? Hers a pic of what I have now.

    There were quite a few options. I don't have a sight book, but my gun has a semi buckhorn sight with the serrations on the ears. There also was a ladder sight like yours that was stamped 1886 that I have seen.

  2. #102
    Boolit Master Kev18's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    160
    Quote Originally Posted by Geobru View Post
    Is this .425 after you ran the loaded round in the sizing die to reduce the diameter?

    I bought bullets from Bullshop on line. I'm set up for casting my own now, but have some more to use first.
    Yes I ran it through the sizing die. I cant reload unsized cases, the bullet falls down the case. I need to resize the neck every time. If I remember correctly, a fired case is .434

  3. #103
    Boolit Master
    bigted's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Sweet Home Oregon
    Posts
    3,678
    Kev, use the drill/file to reduce your loaded case necks INSTEAD of running them back in the size die. May be what is happening is by re running them up the size die is you are inadvertantly sizing your .410 back to too small of a boolit by doing so. I would recomend taking not more then 6 or 7 cases to turn down the neck area with your file and drill. These will tell you if this will result in useable functioning accurate rounds.

    Also that rear sight looks very familiar. My Sharps has an identical sight except mine is a full buckhorn. I like mine a lot. I use it with a higher blade on the front. In this manner i use the rear as a barrel mounted peep sight with the full buck horn ears. When i require further range i hold the blade top directly between the ears of the rear and this allows a fast 150 yard direct hold. It is fun to use the ladder to lob in the further shots and surprising how good it works.
    WHEN ALL IS SAID AND DONE...MORE WILL BE SAID THEN DONE

  4. #104
    Boolit Master

    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    oklahoma
    Posts
    1,540
    Quote Originally Posted by Kev18 View Post
    Yes I ran it through the sizing die. I cant reload unsized cases, the bullet falls down the case. I need to resize the neck every time. If I remember correctly, a fired case is .434
    STOP. Dont thin the necks yet. IF A BOOLIT DROPS INTO A FIRED CASE, YOU DO NOT HAVE A TIGHT NECK CHAMBER. Size and expand a case...dies it chamber? Seat a boolit with no crimp...then in small increments turn the seater die in with expander backed out until the crimp is just removed...will it chamber.

    I still believe that your problem was overcrimping causing the case to bulge/buckle. I think if you set up your seater correctly, your problem will go away.

  5. #105
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Posts
    484
    Quote Originally Posted by BK7saum View Post
    STOP. Dont thin the necks yet. IF A BOOLIT DROPS INTO A FIRED CASE, YOU DO NOT HAVE A TIGHT NECK CHAMBER. Size and expand a case...dies it chamber? Seat a boolit with no crimp...then in small increments turn the seater die in with expander backed out until the crimp is just removed...will it chamber.

    I still believe that your problem was overcrimping causing the case to bulge/buckle. I think if you set up your seater correctly, your problem will go away.
    This reply makes a lot of sense - I believe you got it !

  6. #106
    Boolit Master Kev18's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    160
    Quote Originally Posted by BK7saum View Post
    STOP. Dont thin the necks yet. IF A BOOLIT DROPS INTO A FIRED CASE, YOU DO NOT HAVE A TIGHT NECK CHAMBER. Size and expand a case...dies it chamber? Seat a boolit with no crimp...then in small increments turn the seater die in with expander backed out until the crimp is just removed...will it chamber.

    I still believe that your problem was overcrimping causing the case to bulge/buckle. I think if you set up your seater correctly, your problem will go away.
    What do you mean expand a case? Flare the mouth? If I drop a fired case in the chamber it will go in. I know why issue was that I over crimped. Even if I resized the case, seated the bullet with a light crimp it still has a chance of falling in the case, not with the recoil, but when I feed the rounds through the loading gate. The bullets get pushed back in.

  7. #107
    Boolit Master

    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    oklahoma
    Posts
    1,540
    I apologize as I cant remember your setup for loading.

    In regard to your previous post, tube fed rifles dont necessarily need ammo heavily crimped to keep boolits from setting back. Sufficient neck tension (brass inner diameter 0.001-0.002" less than boolit diameter) is plenty to hold boolits firmly. For tube fed rifles, neck tension plus a light crimp is plenty to keep the boolit from setting back under spring tension.


    Do you have a full length sizing die set? Assuming you do, screw the sizing/decapping die into your press until it touches the shell holder. Then size the case and decap the fired primer.

    We dont need to prime or add powder, lets just load a dummy round.

    At this point the case is resized, a boolit should not enter the case mouth due to the "sizing down" of the case. If a boolit will enter the case after it has been sized, we need to address that problem.

    Now we need to expand the case mouth. I use an expander with a lower sectioned that is 0.001-0.002" smaller in diameter than the boolit I want to shoot. The expander has a section near the top with a flare and larger step that is 0.002-0.003 larger than my boolit diameter. When I "expand" the case neck, I adjust the expander so that the larger step enters the case mouth by 0.020" or so. That way the "flare" allows me to seat a boolit without shaving lead.

    To go over what we've set up so far...you have to size the case so that the ID is 0.002-0.010" less than boolit diameter. This gives neck tension to firmly hold the boolit. If too small, we have to expand and flare the case so we can seat a boolit without shaving lead.

    As long as the expander is less than boolit diameter, the case will have enough grip on the boolit that a crimp may not be necessary.

    You should have some sort of flaring die or expanding die with your die set.

    Now that we have a sized case that we have neck expanded and flared to accept a boolit, let's seat a boolit with no crimp. Back your seating die out 2-3 turns from your normal setting. Then start your case and boolit into the die. Adjust the seating plug downward, but not the die body until you get the desired boolit seating depth. Check to see if it will chamber. It may or the "flare" might bind up if excessive.

    Now let's remove the "flare" on the case mouth. Back out the boolit seating stem a lot. We don't want it to contact the boolit at all in this step. With the dummy cartridge in the shellholder and the press ram raised to the top, screw the die body down until it contacts the dummy cartridge. Make sure the seating stem isnt making contact, only the die body. Now, screw the die body down 1/8 turn. Remove the dummy and check the flare/crimp with caliper and looking at it. If the flare has been removed or a sufficient crimp achieved, screw the die body down another 1/8 turn and keep checking. Once the flare is removed, your dummy cartridge will chamber.

    By making and keeping a dummy cartridge, you can set up your die easily so that you can seat a boolit in one operation and crimp in a second operation.

    This crimping and seating in separate steps works really well when the boolit used doesn't have a crimp groove.

    Without a crimp groove, during seating, the brass case mouth digs into the boolit and as the case is crimped further, the brass case mouth is pushed down with the boolit. The brass has to go somewhere, so it bulges the case outward below the case mouth (exactly what has happened to your cartridges previously).

    I am typing this on a smart phone, so please forgive the typos.

    Setting up the dummy cartridge and seating without crimping, then crimping in a separate step will solve the bulged case issue.

    If you still have questions, we can address them individually.

    I don't know anyone who hasn't overcrimped a case and bulged the neck or shoulder starting out as a newbie. Been there myself. Well get you going. Just be patient.
    Last edited by BK7saum; Today at 12:09 AM.

  8. #108
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    331
    BK7saum,
    That was a very good set of step by step instructions.
    Happiness is a Warm GUN & more ammo to shoot in it.

  9. #109
    Boolit Master Kev18's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    160
    Quote Originally Posted by BK7saum View Post
    I apologize as I cant remember your setup for loading.

    In regard to your previous post, tube fed rifles dont necessarily need ammo heavily crimped to keep boolits from setting back. Sufficient neck tension (brass inner diameter 0.001-0.002" less than boolit diameter) is plenty to hold boolits firmly. For tube fed rifles, neck tension plus a light crimp is plenty to keep the boolit from setting back under spring tension.


    Do you have a full length sizing die set? Assuming you do, screw the sizing/decapping die into your press until it touches the shell holder. Then size the case and decap the fired primer.

    We dont need to prime or add powder, lets just load a dummy round.

    At this point the case is resized, a boolit should not enter the case mouth due to the "sizing down" of the case. If a boolit will enter the case after it has been sized, we need to address that problem.

    Now we need to expand the case mouth. I use an expander with a lower sectioned that is 0.001-0.002" smaller in diameter than the boolit I want to shoot. The expander has a section near the top with a flare and larger step that is 0.002-0.003 larger than my boolit diameter. When I "expand" the case neck, I adjust the expander so that the larger step enters the case mouth by 0.020" or so. That way the "flare" allows me to seat a boolit without shaving lead.

    To go over what we've set up so far...you have to size the case so that the ID is 0.002-0.010" less than boolit diameter. This gives neck tension to firmly hold the boolit. If too small, we have to expand and flare the case so we can seat a boolit without shaving lead.

    As long as the expander is less than boolit diameter, the case will have enough grip on the boolit that a crimp may not be necessary.

    You should have some sort of flaring die or expanding die with your die set.

    Now that we have a sized case that we have neck expanded and flared to accept a boolit, let's seat a boolit with no crimp. Back your seating die out 2-3 turns from your normal setting. Then start your case and boolit into the die. Adjust the seating plug downward, but not the die body until you get the desired boolit seating depth. Check to see if it will chamber. It may or the "flare" might bind up if excessive.

    Now let's remove the "flare" on the case mouth. Back out the boolit seating stem a lot. We don't want it to contact the boolit at all in this step. With the dummy cartridge in the shellholder and the press ram raised to the top, screw the die body down until it contacts the dummy cartridge. Make sure the seating stem isnt making contact, only the die body. Now, screw the die body down 1/8 turn. Remove the dummy and check the flare/crimp with caliper and looking at it. If the flare has been removed or a sufficient crimp achieved, screw the die body down another 1/8 turn and keep checking. Once the flare is removed, your dummy cartridge will chamber.

    By making and keeping a dummy cartridge, you can set up your die easily so that you can seat a boolit in one operation and crimp in a second operation.

    This crimping and seating in separate steps works really well when the boolit used doesn't have a crimp groove.

    Without a crimp groove, during seating, the brass case mouth digs into the boolit and as the case is crimped further, the brass case mouth is pushed down with the boolit. The brass has to go somewhere, so it bulges the case outward below the case mouth (exactly what has happened to your cartridges previously).

    I am typing this on a smart phone, so please forgive the typos.

    Setting up the dummy cartridge and seating without crimping, then crimping in a separate step will solve the bulged case issue.

    If you still have questions, we can address them individually.

    I don't know anyone who hasn't overcrimped a case and bulged the neck or shoulder starting out as a newbie. Been there myself. Well get you going. Just be patient.
    Thanks for all the info. Il give it a try tomorrow! You aren't the firs tone to mention my expander plug in the die set. Someone told me to measure the diameter of it. If its to large, it could open up the neck again and that could cause the boolits to drop back in the case. Il take calipers and measure it tomorrow. Its 1am for me now, I need sleep.

Page 6 of 6 FirstFirst 123456

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check