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Thread: Why am I having trouble chambering cartridges in my 1886?

  1. #161
    Boolit Buddy Kev18's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uscra112 View Post
    OK, not stellar, but progress all the same. Especially changing your hold!

    My final comment on fillers, then I'll shut up:

    I hang out (figuratively speaking), with the guys on the ASSRA website. In theory at least dedicated to the preservation of the 19th century Schuetzen game. The best of these guys can keep every shot on a salad plate at 200 yards, offhand, using iron sights. On the bench it's more like a silver dollar, AND they shoot for score, which means a tight group out in the 7-ring does you no good at all. The rules say plain base bullets. Everybody breech seats, rather than seating the bullet in the case. Cartridges vary from .25-20 Single Shot to .32-40, with a rare individual who can take the recoil of a .38-55 all day. (Many matches are 100 shots.) Top shooters do tend to use powders faster than 4198; AA#9, 4227, AA4100, etc. Case volume probably has something to do with it - the .32-40 is only 41 grains of water.

    To the point: NOBODY today uses fillers. Some do use a tiny tuft of kapok or toilet tissue to keep the powder close to the primer, and it is very popular to use a thin wad of floral foam at the case mouth, just to avoid spilling powder. (Wads down on the powder cause chamber ringing!)

    I'm a natural skeptic. Even the Gun Gods of my youth published some strange and even dangerous loads. Especially Elmer and his infamous "OKH duplex loads" scheme. Those were the days! No cheap electronic instrumentation, no computers, just load it up and tie a string to the trigger!

    http://elmerkeithshoot.org/GA/1982_1...le_Charges.pdf Read this through - he has a little to say about fillers.

    But then he also advocated a card wad down on the powder, which has now been proven to be THE prime cause of ringed chambers.

    I cannot factor fillers into my QL models, so you're on your own in re: pressures. Do you have a chronograph? That'll give an indirect estimate.

    Cheers!

    Phil
    My issue is exactly what you said, and is everyone else issue when reloading 40-82. The case capacity is to large. Smaller cases have no issues. And if my rifle wouldnt be an original it would save alot of problems. I need to keep the pressures and fps relatively low compared to today's standards.

  2. #162
    Boolit Master uscra112's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kev18 View Post
    My issue is exactly what you said, and is everyone else issue when reloading 40-82. The case capacity is to large. Smaller cases have no issues. And if my rifle wouldnt be an original it would save alot of problems. I need to keep the pressures and fps relatively low compared to today's standards.
    Funny how guns that gave people trouble into the smokeless era are now better preserved than others. They got packed away in an attic and became time capsules for us to discover. And to try to figure out.

    BTW I reminded myself that some people tried Grex, (also known as Puff-Lon), which is a very lightweight synthetic filler used to buffer the shot load in shotguns. I still have a jar, from back when I tried stuff like that. I also have half a bushel of kapok, which would last me six lifetimes even if I were shooting at the rate I was fifteen years ago! Puff-Lon did nothing for me one way or the other, so there it sits on a shelf.
    Last edited by uscra112; 08-23-2018 at 06:58 PM.
    flectere si nequeo superos, acheronta movebo

  3. #163
    Boolit Master Texas by God's Avatar
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    Perhaps the 40 - 82 cartridge is obsolete for good reason! That's what I'm getting out of all of this...

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

  4. #164
    Boolit Buddy Kev18's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uscra112 View Post
    Funny how guns that gave people trouble into the smokeless era are now better preserved than others. They got packed away in an attic and became time capsules for us to discover. And to try to figure out.

    BTW I reminded myself that some people tried Grex, (also known as Puff-Lon), which is a very lightweight synthetic filler used to buffer the shot load in shotguns. I still have a jar, from back when I tried stuff like that. I also have half a bushel of kapok, which would last me six lifetimes even if I were shooting at the rate I was fifteen years ago! Puff-Lon did nothing for me one way or the other, so there it sits on a shelf.
    I dont feel like testing out fillers and such anymore, or for now atleast. So i am just running goex with 5 grains 4227 on the primer. Apparently that helps fouling. Ive had my best group with that. Il go shooting again this weekend.

  5. #165
    Boolit Buddy Kev18's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Texas by God View Post
    Perhaps the 40 - 82 cartridge is obsolete for good reason! That's what I'm getting out of all of this...

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk
    It's obsolete like hundreds of others. No fun for me in new cartridges... No cool guns are chambered in them. I just reloaded some .32 Remington. Thats one that gave me abit of trouble. Now thats obsolete considering the .32 Winchester special survived, and they are literally the same cartridge. Except the .32 rem does not have a rim. Even if it's obsolete I just slapped a bullet in the case along with powder and it works fine. Some are just more complicated than others.
    Did some .44 mag also for one of my newer dated levers. Not a fan of remlins.

  6. #166
    Boolit Buddy
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kev18 View Post
    I dont feel like testing out fillers and such anymore, or for now atleast. So i am just running goex with 5 grains 4227 on the primer. Apparently that helps fouling. Ive had my best group with that. Il go shooting again this weekend.
    Kev
    That is a simple solution - you will be getting very very close to original factory ballistics, case is full so you can use the original style of boolit without crimping problems, if that is the best group stick with it, you might improve accuracy a bit with a wad under the boolit (juice box wad or some of the long range gurus use LDPE - plastic milk jug) - Enjoy that old rifle you are lucky to have it!

  7. #167
    Boolit Buddy Kev18's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by indian joe View Post
    Kev
    That is a simple solution - you will be getting very very close to original factory ballistics, case is full so you can use the original style of boolit without crimping problems, if that is the best group stick with it, you might improve accuracy a bit with a wad under the boolit (juice box wad or some of the long range gurus use LDPE - plastic milk jug) - Enjoy that old rifle you are lucky to have it!
    Thank you! I use a fiber wad from Buffalo Arms. I still need to run the brass through the resizing die to "thin out" the neck. I might just do what a user on here told me to do. He has been shooting 40-82 for far longer then me and he had every problem I had/ have. Il need to file the necks down of the cases. Thinning out the necks= bigger bullet in the chamber.

  8. #168
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    Just read this whole saga. Are you turning in some acvurate shooting now?

    Some time back in this post, you wrote of having trouble with the wrist mounted peep sight ... did you get this festered out?

    Got a need to know. I have had a 45-120 sharps for years. That is a 45 cal in a 3 1/4 inch case and time to time i get energetic and try some new to me info. I find this whole post to be beneficial to my situation. Have you tried 1 Fg powder? I finally got some regular GOEX 1Fg powder and i am going to load some of my rather long cases with it.

    So whats up Kev?
    WHEN ALL IS SAID AND DONE...MORE WILL BE SAID THEN DONE

  9. #169
    Boolit Buddy Kev18's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigted View Post
    Just read this whole saga. Are you turning in some acvurate shooting now?

    Some time back in this post, you wrote of having trouble with the wrist mounted peep sight ... did you get this festered out?

    Got a need to know. I have had a 45-120 sharps for years. That is a 45 cal in a 3 1/4 inch case and time to time i get energetic and try some new to me info. I find this whole post to be beneficial to my situation. Have you tried 1 Fg powder? I finally got some regular GOEX 1Fg powder and i am going to load some of my rather long cases with it.

    So whats up Kev?
    Im all fixed up now! I reload with smokeless . Alot simpler for me. Powder was not my issue, it was just the load in general. I explained it a bit on the other post from the guy with accuracy issues in his 1892. I saw you commented on there to.
    Basically, the loads I was trying weren't right for me. Old cartridges are "special" and need alot of attention! Im assuming your 45-120 is or might be in the same boat... Keep in mind its the little things that matter. People give alot of useful info but unless its for that specific cartridge, its almost not going to work. For example people were trying to give me advice on the 40-82 but they had only shot 45-70. Its all good and useful information... for the 45-70 not mine.
    I was shooting pretty much every load in the book for this caliber. Wasn't working. Black powder, smokeless, Black powder substitutes... I tried everything. No accuracy. People recommended to use fillers. Some said toilet paper, others cornmeal. Toilet paper wasnt great but improved. Meaning that 5 yards away I could hit a paper. After trying everything I felt like giving up but like you said I got energetic and positive about the situation, so I reloaded more and went shooting every weekend.

    After everything I tried, the only option left was cornmeal filler. I tried it and it drastically improved. I GOT AN ACTUAL GROUP!
    Still wasnt crazy accuracy to today's standards but I could hit paper and a target at 25-30 yards.

    Now at this point my issue thats mentioned in this thread was rounds not chambering. I was told to file the cases down on the outside because on old rifles the chambers could be smaller than the bores. So I did... bought all the tools for that! And it worked, but caused my brass to be way to thin at the neck. So that wasnt normal.

    Last weekend I reloaded original .406 diameter bullets. Before hand, I was loading the same bullets just beagled to .410 because I was sure my bore was to small due to the accuracy issues i was having because that is what someone told me when I first purchased the rifle and asked about my problem. Turns out the .406 bullets shoot just fine and even better than the other ones. So the over sized bullets are what caused most of the chambering issue. 50% of the problem solved. Now the cartridges went in but I had to apply an uncomfortable amount of force. So something else was wrong. My **** brass was to long from shooting it to much. So I purchased a lyman case trimmer. Now my cases slide in the bore with no friction.

    Keep in mind all of this went on for 3 years. Every day I am doing research, and trying to gain knowledge on the 40-82 and rifle itself.

    Last week I went shooting and I was hitting clay pigeons with the rifle. Good enough for me.

    As for the sights, I put the original front sight and rear sight back on. The peep sight is still on also. It seems to work well even with my rear ladder sight. SO it'll stay there for now.

    Im glad to help and share my boring, aggravating story with you and any tips I might have! If you want real solid info you could check for older forum posts and articles written by people who studied and shot the rifle for years. And by old articles I mean from the 70's-90's. I got some good ones on my rifle and caliber.

    Ask away if you have questions!

  10. #170
    Boolit Buddy
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    Ever consider inside reaming of the case necks?. Might give you a few thousandths to play with and help solve your problem.Your only two options after that would be reaming the outside of the case necks or run a chambering reamer up the barrel to open up the chamber. Frank

  11. #171
    Boolit Buddy Kev18's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by samari46 View Post
    Ever consider inside reaming of the case necks?. Might give you a few thousandths to play with and help solve your problem.Your only two options after that would be reaming the outside of the case necks or run a chambering reamer up the barrel to open up the chamber. Frank
    Im all fixed now.It took me awhile to find out all my issues but she shoots!

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check