chicken coop 1911 slide

[S.B.]

I own a Colt 1911(not a 1911A1) slide I think I bought at one of the first gunshows($25 IIRC?)I'm 70 end of this month, I ever attended. sight dovetail has been filled in with weld and rear of slide has been checkered. Have to dig that thing out and do something with it someday?
Steve

[pietro]

.

Nice !

I have a friend that also leaves **** hanging around in his shed - but he's never come up with anything like you did !

Congrats !

.

[Doug Humbarger]

Are Essex 1911 frames still available?

[Texas by God]

Are Essex 1911 frames still available?

I don't think so. Sarco has frames some are ParaOrdnance.

[S.B.]

I don't think so. Sarco has frames some are ParaOrdnance.

I believe the name has changed? I bought a frame and slide of theirs a while back, to put yet, another 1911 together from Colt parts left over from my USPSA days.
Steve

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Check out essexarms.com , they are moving to Florida. Para Ordnance was purchased by Remington. Not certain whom, if anyone, benefited from that transaction. All of Para's remaining parts were sold to Sarco. It seems like they mostly have unfinished frames remaining in inventory.

[firebyprolong]

It is an original micro froggie, I pick up the parts when ever I see them. This one is built from 3 different gun show parts boxes.

I've been looking at those para frames at sarco too, came to the conclusion that buying a rock island and working it over was easyer and cheaper.

[Thin Man]

Why is it that 1911's get left behind? A few days ago a friend called asking how to remove heavy rust from a 1911. Here is his story:

He has a friend who recently bought a piece of property in the city where we live. An older couple lived there until both had passed on. Title to the lot went to their son who lived out of state. Over the years various realtors and land buyers would contact the son to ask if the lot could be bought. His canned answer was "it's not for sale, and don't call again!". The house on the lot deteriorated and the son had it torn down. All that was left was a detached garage with work shop, locked by the son. Trees, grasses and weeds grew wild but the son did no maintenance on the lot. The city government would mow the edges beside the road and bill the son and he always paid the bill. In time the son passed away. In order to settle his estate the lot went up for sale. It sold quickly as it is in a desirable location. The buyer opened the garage and work shop where he found a safe, closed and locked. He hired a locksmith to open the safe, and now the story gets interesting. This safe contained many papers and articles placed there by the son's father. Among them was a 1911 pistol (not the A1 variant) and 4 unopened boxes of Peters brand .45 acp ammo. The pistol was heavily rusted. The new owner called my friend who managed to disassemble it and got it soaking in transmission fluid. About 3 weeks later they removed the pieces and discovered that the serial number for this pistol had been ground off. That, and the heavy plating of rust still on the pistol after a 3-week soak, are why my friend called me. We spoke at length about the rust but only briefly about the serial number issue as my friend already knew the owner had a problem on his hands. I have no idea how they will handle this issue but at least they have an interesting story to share. Yet another 1911 was someone's trusted handgun until they no longer could use it.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Interesting story. Well, so many (millions) have been made that some are bound to turn up in unexpected locations. Too bad about the condition. I'm certain that Brownell's Rust Remover will take off every last speck of rust, but you won't be happy with what's left, as it's bound to be badly pitted. Maybe the pits can be filed out, the gun polished and re-blued, Parkerized, or refinished with one of the modern spray-on finishes, but of course any collector value is long gone. But, it could be made to be more eye-appealing and continue to soldier on as a utilitarian firearm.

As for the missing serial number, you have an interesting situation which can vary in severity depending on where you are located. In many jurisdictions it is a crime to possess a handgun that was originally serial numbered with the number having been removed. When I was a mere "yout" back around '48 my dad was a city police officer, and (long story short) ended up with a 1911 that had the serial number filed off. He attempted to raise the serial number using acid, and was successful in doing so with the exception of one digit which could have been an "8" or a "3" or perhaps a "6" as the digit was only partially visible. A check was run through civilian law enforcement channels and with the military services and the pistol had not been reported stolen. At that time (in California) there were three agencies who were authorized to assign new serial numbers to defaced firearms, one of which was the Alameda Sheriff's Office. So after the case involving the pistol had been adjudicated, my dad acquired the pistol at the police auction and had a new number stamped on it, which begins with the prefix "ASO-xxxx". Because of subsequent firearms legislation, both at the State and Federal level, this may no longer be possible.

You would be surprised at how well the acid process can work. When the original numbers were stamped into the steel the molecules were compressed in that location and the metal work hardened. The acid eats away at the softer metal surrounding the location of the numbers, and they will again become visible to varying extents. Now days, with more modern methods of applying serial numbers, the acid system doesn't see much use, but would be applicable in your case. If the pistol isn't "hot" you might be allowed to re-stamp or enhance the original number. But, until I got a good reading on the matter, say perhaps from the BATF, I'd personally be reluctant to have the piece in my possession, or at the very least I'd be very circumspect about who I told about it.

[Thin Man]

You are correct that the statutes can vary from one location to another. About 5 years ago a man came into the shop where I work and asked why the grips on his S&W commercial revolver were longer at the bottom of the grip than the frame. The grips extended below the frame and he wanted them the same length. After a quick look I told him I would not do any work on the firearm because the bottom of the frame and serial number had been ground away. The numbers were not to be found anywhere on the firearm. The owner panicked but decided he should turn it in to local law enforcement. We called the P.D. and an officer responded. I told the officer the story of the removed serial number, but he only shrugged his shoulders and said he did not know if he was supposed to take it or not. I reminded him that our state has a statute concerning serial numbers. It declares than any item that has had a serial number assigned to that item when it was made, whether it is a car, or television, or firearm, or whatever, and that serial number is later removed or altered, the item immediately becomes contraband and must be surrendered to law enforcement authorities. Still, the officer left the revolver with us. My next call was to the BATF Compliance Supervisor for our state. After explaining the story to him, he recommended that our state's investigations agency (TN Bureau of Investigations) has the authority to assign a replacement serial number to firearms. The owner claimed he would contact them with his concerns. Don't know if he made the call or not, but he carried the revolver away with him. All this being said, I will call the TBI this week to inquire if they are capable and willing to install a replacement serial number on this recently found 1911. The owner really wants to keep it but is terrified at the problems he could encounter from being discovered with the firearm in it's present condition. Will post an update on this call after I speak with TBI personnel. Perhaps this owner will get lucky.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Ahhh...I didn't realize that you were "in the business" and a gun-savvy guy. Some of the early 1911s had the serial number duplicated under the firing pin stop on the rear of the slide. I've seen a few, but have never been too clear on exactly which ones in which time period had this feature, as most do not. Easy to find out, just push in the firing pin with a pin punch or something similar and push the stop out of its track toward the bottom of the slide. The the number will be visible in tiny digits, usually two or three digits on either side of the firing pin channel. Kind of like:
76 0 543 , the "0" being the hole. You friend's specimen being a 1911 it's an earlier model and may have this feature. It may prove difficult to remove if it's so badly rusted. Colt may have discontinued the practice when the numbers got too high to fit in the space available. Sounds to me, though, that no one is getting too excited and you may be able to get the piece legitimized and restored to use.

The entire serial number thing has become murky anyway. When I was a practicing gunsmith, and therefore an FFL holder and dealer, I attended two BATF Seminars separated by several years, one in Medford and the other in Portland, OR. At both seminars I asked the same question, which was if I was allowed to stamp a number on a gun that had none, such as one manufactured without a number prior to 1968. On both occasions I got blank stares and, "Why would you want to do that?" My explanation was that if you own a Stevens Model 15-A and it's stolen there is no number with which to report it stolen, and no means of knowing from whom it was stolen if it is recovered so as to return it to it's rightful owner; nothing to identify it from 50,000 other rifles of the same make and model. At that time they didn't have an answer as to the legality, but it was noted that there was nothing against what seemed to be the fairly common practice of people putting their social security number or driver license number on guns with an electric pencil. (Kind of makes you shudder, doesn't it-- but how many have you seen? More than one, I'll bet!) Being now long gone from daily contact with the business I'm no longer up to date, but have gotten the impression from others posting on this board that applying serial numbers to guns that don't have them is forbidden. Maybe someone can clarify this, as there are active gunsmiths and FFL licensees that post here. On both occasions I left with the impression that they just didn't particularly care if you got your gun back or not, nor if someone lies on the Form 4473 (have you ever seen a perjury prosecution for falsification?), and that they had bigger fish to fry like apprehending people selling automatic weapons and cases of pilfered hand grenades.

It's great that your state will still assign new numbers. I know that in California the gun would be immediately confiscated and the person in possession prosecuted either for possession of a handgun with the serial number removed, or for possession of stolen property if it could be shown that the gun had been stolen. Here in Oregon I'm not sure what the reaction would be, but I suspect it would be similar to what would happen in Calif. At least sanity is still to be found in other parts of the country.