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Thread: H&R: What the heck happened?

  1. #61
    Boolit Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by megasupermagnum View Post
    We make guns of plastic now for pete's sake.
    You can find Zamak parts (lightly to non stressed and low to no wear parts) in several high quality modern guns, just not the entire receiver like that Henry! It's a matter of what parts are made of the stuff and the fact it is all covered with fake brass to make it look like something it's not.

    As far as modern "plastic" guns they are made of high quality polymers (not cheap plastics) that can cost more than metal castings, that stuff is much more durable than Zamak potmetal and is used to make the gun lighter not cheaper! Then they advertise the fact the guns are made of this material and indeed it one of the desirable selling points, the material is highlighted by the manufacturers as a very desirable feature by them unlike Henry who hides the potmetal under fake brass covers and then calls this material by their own silly names (brasslite????) for the stuff instead of telling what it actually is made of.

    The point is not so much whether the rifle works well or not it's the deception behind it that stinks, Henry goes to great lengths to hide the fact that rifle is made of a Zinc based die casting by covering it with phony covers that they call by a phony made up name in an attempt to deceive the buyer of even that! The early rifles had the inside Zamk in the raw and it was not painted black to hide what it is, that along with some very cheap soft plastic parts on the outside (even the front sight!) didn't go over to well for them, they started using metal castings for the sights etc and also painted the receiver die casting black to make it look more like a durable rifle part. It's the company's deceptive practices from hiding Zinc die castings used for receivers to fake brass covers called by a catchy name (BRASS-lite) used to hide these parts in an attempt to dupe the buyer into thinking it actually is brass when clearly it's not, to their shady way of trying to make people believe they are a continuation of an old classic when clearly they have nothing to do with the classic except assuming the name. If a company will resort to that kind of deception what else might they do? It's about the deception more than anything else but then cheap die cast Zinc receivers don't do much for most of us either!

    If a Zinc die casting covered by phony cast covers painted with a fake brass coating is your idea of a nice rifle for the price then that's your choice but some of us want better than that!
    Last edited by oldred; 07-29-2018 at 11:05 AM.
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  2. #62
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    There are many rifles with die cast receivers. Most are .22 LR.
    I think the Rem Nylon 66 has a cheap cover over the bolt assy.
    The old Ithaca falling block lever gun .22 LR single shot appeared to be die cast. A Colt semiauto rifle in .22LR I had had a die cast receiver.
    EDG

  3. #63
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    The Nylon 66s are Aluminum castings, not Zamak, as is the Colt unless I am mistaken and I might be as I have not examined one but have heard them referred to as aluminum, a Colt is not likely to be made of inferior metal. The Ruger 1022 is another very popular one with an aluminum construction receiver but there is a lot of difference between aluminum and Zinc die castings. The Ithaca is likely a Zinc alloy casting but then it was never hyped as being high quality either, unlike that Henry! The Ithaca is also a prime example of why I would NOT want a Zinc die cast receiver, I bought one in 22 mag when I was a kid (picked and sold wild blackberries to save the $28 it cost, walked into the Western Auto and bought it new, I was 14 years old and nobody blinked an eye, ah but those truly were the good old days!) Those Ithacas would rapidly degrade under even normal use, (as mine certainly did)! and it's fairly rare to even see one today never mind one in good shape, that Ithaca is the kind of thing that's a darn good example of where steel or quality aluminum alloys vs Zinc die cast makes a world of difference! Like those Zinc alloy Ithacas how will a well used Golden Boy hold up over time?

    Again the point is more about deception than anything else, the Golden Boy is hyped to the hilt by Henry and others when it is actually little more than a cheaply made rifle covered with a lot of bling to make it pretty and then hyped up by fancy ads. If there ever was a case of a ten dollar horse wearing a hundred dollar saddle that one is it IMO but if someone likes these things and wants one that's fine, after all most folks who own them seem to like them. My point is that folks should be aware of what those things really are and the obvious deception effort to hide how they are really built as opposed to the flashy but fake coverings and slick ads hyping such unknown materials as "Brasslite" which is just a fancy name for a brass COLORED casting.
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  4. #64
    Boolit Grand Master uscra112's Avatar
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    As any oldtime Brit biker knows, zinc can corrode like crazy. Open up an Amal carb that has been standing for a while, and you're likely to be greeted by what we called "The White Death".
    Cognitive Dissident

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldred View Post
    The Nylon 66s are Aluminum castings, not Zamak, as is the Colt unless I am mistaken and I might be as I have not examined one but have heard them referred to as aluminum, a Colt is not likely to be made of inferior metal.
    I took my Nylon 66 partially apart once. I do not remember any cast aluminum parts, thought there may be 1 or 2. If so, they are not wear parts. The bolt is enclosed by the nylon stock and the stamped steel receiver cover. I would love to have another for using, as the one I have is a Bicentennial model the the gold filled "engraving".

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by uscra112 View Post
    As any oldtime Brit biker knows, zinc can corrode like crazy. Open up an Amal carb that has been standing for a while, and you're likely to be greeted by what we called "The White Death".
    I've found that a few times, even in aluminum carbs. Letting ethanol fuel sit for years really causes problems. Oddly, I found Hoppes #9 to clean it pretty well, along with a wire brush, and a good soak in B-12.

    I can certainly understand the deceptive advertising thing, although I never got that impression from Henry. I was not even all that aware of the company 15-20 years ago, so I have no idea what they were originally like.

  7. #67
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    The Nylon 66 is made of Zytel and steel and nothing else. Folks loved them or hated them. I love mine and if I had to grab one gun to live with that would be the one.
    Henry makes up for the zinc and plastic by using real Walnut for their stocks. My dos centavos- nada mas.

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  8. #68
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    Back in the 70's my BIL bought an Ithaca lever action 22, it was a nice looking rifle that shot well, he still has it. A couple years ago his son bought a Henry 22. We were looking at both and noticed how similar they were. We took the but stock off both and switched them, perfect fit.

    I think both company's were from NY and wondered if Henry bought the rights and tooling that Ithaca had used.

  9. #69
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    OLDRED,
    You said what I would've if I wasn't using a touch pen on a tablet. Don't have that much patience.
    I guess because I was raised on BLUED Steel & Walnut. I remember the differences between the COLT .22 Peacmaker & a Mattel "50 Fanner".
    I had a NYLON 66 & WINCHESTER 9422M. Lots of differences, but both good guns.

    Nothing like a so called henry.

    Still would buy an H&R Handi-Rifle or Topper if they ever start making them here in the U.S. of A. As long as they maintain the quality they once had.
    I HATE auto-correct

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  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walks View Post
    \
    Still would buy an H&R Handi-Rifle or Topper if they ever start making them here in the U.S. of A. As long as they maintain the quality they once had.
    That's something we can all agree with. I have been going back and forth for weeks on a Henry single shot in 308 winchester. I like the single shot, but it's getting to the point with price and lack of availability, I might just go for the long ranger model instead. I'd take a handi-rifle over either, but it has been a long time since I've seen a 308 winchester, and it seems people think they are worth more than the Henry single shot now.

  11. #71
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    Probably not a big difference, but the Henry receivers are made of Zamak 5 not #3. Also, the guns will last a long time, some have 250k rounds through them. Not saying I want one, but they run good and are smooth shooters and last a long time. My .22s are Marlin 795s, pre Remington and a Henry stainless Mini-Bolt, a kid sized gun I use for pest control. Built with steel. I have 5 Handi Rifles and 10 barrels and a USG 12 guage. I like them.

  12. #72
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    For $300, people are expecting too much. Show me a company making a solid brass (or even steel) receiver lever action with a really nice walnut stock for that price and I'll show you a company that won't be around in 5 years. If a $300 gun can last 250K rounds, I don't care what it's made of as long as it works. $300 doesn't go near as far as it did 40 years ago. Today, that's the starting point for most budget guns. You really don't get to be picky until you start paying $600 or more.
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  13. #73
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    Zinc die castings when the alloy is poorly controlled are about the worst product on the planet. I will explain.

    Zinc has to have a high level of purity or trace elements can cause intergranular corrosion. This is corrosion all through the item along the grain boundaries.
    I remember an example really well from when I was in the first grade.
    My mother had been to a variety store and brought home 2 little 4" long die cast cars one red and one blue. She handed one to me and my grasp crushed it like foil. Apparently the paint over the die casting was the strongest structural component. The second car broke into pieces when I rolled it into the wall on a 45 degree angle.

    I can't say the Colt .22 rifle that I mentioned above was superior in anyway. The hammer pivot pin kept bending when fired causing malfunctions.
    EDG

  14. #74
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    My first experience with corporate buy-out and shut-down of the competition came when Sears bought the Western Auto chain of family owned and operated stores. We had 2 Western Auto stores in our town and both had large numbers of repeat customers. They offered good products and on-site repairs and were interactive with their customers. Sears viewed them as a threat and bought out the entire group only to then close them down. I'm still angry at Sears for this move as they washed away a group of stores that provided more services than Sears could replace. Bah. Humbug.

  15. #75
    Boolit Master
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    I have four Nylon 66. You are right. I have also had the Nylon 77 model with the detachable magazines but I sold it as I don't like protruding magazines. Also sold good shooting Remington 788 for same reason.

  16. #76
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    The Ithaca is same rifle as Henry. Henry is just designed to be produced with modern methods &
    materials. In other words a higher tech , over priced novelty gun. The only reason they get that
    kind of money for a Henry 22 is that Marlin 39s are so expensive. There is no comparison between
    the two.

    I have owned & do own quite a few guns. The ones I have owned are in the hundreds. That was
    my thing my whole life, I'm 68. Way back when I was a teen I could tell the difference from a
    good gun and novelty stuff. Like the Colt series of 22 semi auto rifles, they were made in France
    by Manu France who also sold same gun under chain store labels. They were common second rate
    rifles with Colts name. About same quality as the post 64 Win line of 22s.

    Get a Shotgun news from 60s and look at all the imports that were available just in 22s. You will
    see models that ended up branded with US makes. Marlin & H&R & Colt all had pump shotguns
    made by same outfit in France. The same gun was store branded too.

    All these guns are second rate. If you like them that is your business. When I get a gun I don't
    care what make it is, if it's **** I will say so and get rid of it. Most of these guns I would never
    buy new and only end up with them from trading. I have gotten fooled a couple of times the last
    a SIG Mosquito at $400 when they were first out. The SiG name and $400 tag lulled me into it
    before I had seen one. Total piece of junk. I got took and I admitt it.

    I keep telling the young guys who have gun dollars burning a hole in their pocket to look into
    spending their money on a used gun of better quality. Very few listen, they have to have new.
    They really don't know the difference and with Henry the hype is thick. It is not a consideration
    to most but down the road all these type guns will have little resale value.

  17. #77
    Boolit Master dougader's Avatar
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    IMO, the CVA single shots are better guns. My Hunter in 35 Remington was only $169, looks much better than the H&R, weighs less, and shoots lights out.
    Last edited by dougader; 08-01-2018 at 01:27 AM.

  18. #78
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    The Henry lever action (and the Ithaca) are copies of the design brought out by the German firm Erma.

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  19. #79
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    Better is relative...

    But at least as serviceable and a heap better than a South American junk.

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  20. #80
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    http://www.hr1871.com

    Their website is still up.
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    Did I ever mention that I hate to trim brass?

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