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Thread: H&R: What the heck happened?

  1. #41
    Boolit Grand Master Good Cheer's Avatar
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    For a good low cost single shot I'm about ready to try clamp-on mounts and pistol scope on a Traditions Deerhunter. Half inch is better holes than I'd prefer but hey they'll be easier to see in the target.

  2. #42
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    I'm still waiting for somebody to fill the gap. Thompson Center is far too expensive. Henry missed the mark, and everything else is bottom of the barrel garbage. I miss when you could buy a H&R 2 barrel combo for under $200, send it in to have 2 more barrels fitted, and you then had every gun you would ever need for less than the new cheap bolt actions. I hate bolt actions anyway, but Henry priced theirs too high. Get rid of the fancy wood, nice finish and polishing. A single shot should be inexpensive (not cheap), especially if you are going to turn your nose up to a switch barrel which is half the joy of a break action anyway. When I saw Remington was filing bankruptcy, I immediately thought of H&R. One can only hope.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bent Ramrod View Post
    In our area, the Lyman Corp. was bought out by something called the Leisure Group. They noticed the tool room in the mould dept was full of cherries that were rarely used. The amortization calculations didn’t pan out, so they tossed them out, just a couple years before the rise of interest in old calibers. Somebody could have noted the increasing popularity of Ken Waters’ column “Loading the Old Ones,” but of course these were busy men, with no time for frivolous hobbies. Those boneheads get full credit for the rise of the custom mould makers whose services we now enjoy.
    Hopefully, what Bent Ramrod said in the quote above will be the case for the H&R line of guns. Perhaps someone will see an opportunity with the demand for these guns and start producing a viable replacement.

    I'm tired of large companies and their focus on profit margins and the pursuit of wealth without tempering it with morality or responsibility (or any positive/constructive human trait or emotion). It seems that the "unrestricted" pursuit of profit margins leaves a lot of destruction in its path that can come awful close to nihilism.

  4. #44
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    I agree with OLDRED about the henry rifles. They are just pot metal inside covered by shiny paint.
    I have 3 NEF Single Shot Rifles, all with extra bbl's. When Jim Garrison restarted H&R in 1991 he offered extra bbl's for new made guns. If you sent back a rifle you could get an extra bbl of the same or lesser pressure range as the original rifle. I had a .223 Rifle fitted with a .45-70 bbl. A .30-30 fitted with a 20gauge bbl. And a .25-06 fitted with a .35 Whelen bbl.
    In the early 1990's the H&R Buffalo Classic's were big seller's among Cowboy Action Shooters. The .38-55 too.
    Regardless of what wikipedia said NEF never made handguns, outside of a few starter pistols made from existing parts.
    It 's a shame REMINGTON killed the Brand. Those turkish single shots were even crappier then the rossi's. But then rossi quality bounces like a rubber ball.

    The only reason henry sells rifles is there is no longer any competition.
    The WIN 94 is more then 3 times the price it was when they shut the plant doors at the beginning of 2006.

    Maybe with the influx of cash Remington will get from the new U.S. Gov't Contracts for M-4 Carbines for sale to the U.S. ARMY, that will be passed on to our smaller Allies some things will improve. We can only hope.
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  5. #45
    Boolit Grand Master pietro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dragon813gt View Post

    Is there any proof that H&R sold a lot of rifles? I don’t know anyone that has one.

    Single shots fell out of favor a long time ago.

    You must lead a sheltered life...….

    H&R has been constantly making firearms since 1871, even through the company/product has changed hands 3 or 4 times before the latest owner, Remington, shut down the production of their products.

    Think about that for a minute -

    Why would large factories be built & used for 114 years, if the facilities weren't needed ?

    Why would 3 or 4 different owners buy a losing company ? (except as a tax break/loss for the buying corporation)

    H&R was so successful in their "niche" that several other companies jumped into making break-open single-shot's, selling their products at H&R's breakpoint, or a little less.


    I would presume that H&R's sales fell enough due to the myriad competitor's to warrant closure by the owners of Remington. (yeah, many firearms companies, among others, are owned by some unheard of investment group - who are quick to drop anything viewed as a loser.)



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  6. #46
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    the H&R buff classic was THE bottom feeder entry rifle into BPCR. large corporations are lead by their stockholders, who's bottom line is making as much money as quickly as possible. there are no underlying stockholder good intentions about products or services. many a good product has be cut down needlessly - add H&R handi rifles to that list. it is what it is.

    while one could spend $250 to $400 for a CVA hunter or henry s/s, neither are BPCR entry guns. a tippmann roller is $1k, and still is not a BPCR gun. aside from searching for a used gun, getting into competitive BPCR will run $1200 for just the rifle (pedersoli) and then another $500 to $800 for accoutrements. this expense really shuts the door on those with at least a mild interest in such guns and cartridges, and why they find more dollar value in a cheap bolt action, cheap scope, cheap ammo.

  7. #47
    Boolit Grand Master uscra112's Avatar
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    H&R was never a powerhouse company anyway. From WW2 and thru Vietnam they got by on D.o.D. contracting. Having been in such a company myself, I can attest that it's a lousy way to stay competitive in the free market. That kind of thing killed Hopkins and Allen, and also Packard.

    According to Wiki, the original company actually went toes-up Chapter 7 in the mid-80s. In 1991 a new company was formed using the name and intellectual property to make guns according to the old drawings - cheap revolvers and shotguns. The beloved Handi was just a subset of the shotgun line, albeit with a stronger frame. THAT company's assets were sold to yet another new company, using the same name, wholly owned by Marlin, in 2000. This has the smell to me of a strategy for avoiding bankruptcy by using the Massachusetts "bulk sale act", something I know about having once been the beneficiary of such a transaction. Once Marlin had been sucked up by Remington in 2007, the Handi was destined to be an orphan, IMHO. Within a company like Remington, a product has to have a management "champion" to fight for capital investment, create marketing plans, etc., and the H&R Handi being a subset of a subset of a subset, my guess would be that no manager with an eye on promotion would have touched it. Would be nice if some entrepreneur were to buy the design and using modern CNC methods start making it again, but it won't be cheap, unless it's all done offshore.
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  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walks View Post
    I agree with OLDRED about the henry rifles. They are just pot metal inside covered by shiny paint.
    What are you even talking about? Some rimfires are a cover, but they look fantastic. The centerfires as far as I'm aware are solid brass. There is no coating anywhere on a Henry. Pot metal? You mean a cast metal frame like 90% of the industry has used for 100 years?

    No wonder H&R and so many others are struggling. Guy's want a hand polished and perfectly fitted gun for $300.

    Unlike Walks and OLDRED, I want Henry to cut costs on their single shot. I want lower cost, but I don't expect the bells and whistles. Just a rugged single shot.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by megasupermagnum View Post
    What are you even talking about? Some rimfires are a cover
    What is he talking about? Apparently you have never had a Henry Golden boy cover off! When you remove those FAKE BRASS COATED/PAINTED covers you will find that the rifle is indeed what is often referred to as "potmetal". There really is no such thing as actual "potmetal" and that name just is just a catch-all that refers to almost any Zinc based die casting which those things most certainly are! In the case of the Henry we are discussing the material is actually called Zamak which is in fact a Zinc die casting -or as it commonly is called -Potmetal. The so-called "Brass" covers are for looks only and are also castings but coated with something Henry calls Brasslite, whatever "Brasslite" is it is NOT Brass and those coated cast covers will scratch through that coating and I have heard complaints of it being damaged by some cleaning solvents.

    The Golden Boy did not impress me at all and I know several others that were a bit underwhelmed after seeing what is actually under those fake covers!
    Statistics show that criminals commit fewer crimes after they have been shot

  10. #50
    Boolit Master trapper9260's Avatar
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    When I was small and brought up in MA and my parents would take up kids for a trip to center MA and we would drive by the plant of H&R in Gardner,MA and my dad said that is the H&R plant that makes guns and also made them for the military during the war.It was a good size place. I have 2 H&R one is a 22lr Sport 999 and a 1871 handi that was made to shoot 327mag..Too bad they are out now.
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  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldred View Post
    What is he talking about? Apparently you have never had a Henry Golden boy cover off! When you remove those FAKE BRASS COATED/PAINTED covers you will find that the rifle is indeed what is often referred to as "potmetal". There really is no such thing as actual "potmetal" and that name just is just a catch-all that refers to almost any Zinc based die casting which those things most certainly are! In the case of the Henry we are discussing the material is actually called Zamak which is in fact a Zinc die casting -or as it commonly is called -Potmetal. The so-called "Brass" covers are for looks only and are also castings but coated with something Henry calls Brasslite, whatever "Brasslite" is it is NOT Brass and those coated cast covers will scratch through that coating and I have heard complaints of it being damaged by some cleaning solvents.

    The Golden Boy did not impress me at all and I know several others that were a bit underwhelmed after seeing what is actually under those fake covers!
    If that were true, they wouldn't be for sale in Minnesota. We have a stupid law that prohibits the sale of fireams with a low melting point (somehow Glock doesn't apply). HiPoint's are made of zinc, and not for sale here. Not that it matters anyway, it's a rimfire. I don't know what brasslite is either, but I wouldn't try a copper solvent on it. Hoppes #9 doesn't hurt it at all. The one I got to shoot was $300. This one is 17 HMR, and is a tack driver. The action is smoother than $1200 guns I've handled too. What more do you want, free ammo and a backrub? Sheesh.

  12. #52
    Boolit Master Drm50's Avatar
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    I'm like oldred not impressed with Henry products. Will say they have good customer service. If
    they didn't they would be out of business. I never saw the H&R and NEFs as more than minimum
    you could by. The older H&Rs, IJ and Savage/Stevens single barrel guns weren't fancy but they
    were made well of good stuff. H&R went down hill with the push button latch and the one spring
    does it all design.Pump guns with plastic stocks are more profitable and cheaper to produce .

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by megasupermagnum View Post
    If that were true, they wouldn't be for sale in Minnesota. We have a stupid law that prohibits the sale of fireams with a low melting point (somehow Glock doesn't apply). HiPoint's are made of zinc, and not for sale here. Not that it matters anyway, it's a rimfire. I don't know what brasslite is either, but I wouldn't try a copper solvent on it. Hoppes #9 doesn't hurt it at all. The one I got to shoot was $300. This one is 17 HMR, and is a tack driver. The action is smoother than $1200 guns I've handled too. What more do you want, free ammo and a backrub? Sheesh.
    If that were true? Lol, how you like to make a little wager on that?

    It IS TRUE whether you want to believe it or not, just do a quick search on Google for Henry and Zamak, you will turn up all the "proof" you need!

    Also Henry is guilty of insinuating, but just barely short of claiming, to be a descendant of the original Henry Rifle which is of course utter nonsense! In the first place while an original Henry might be the ultimate classic lever action repeater it was hardly an engineering marvel and was only around a very short time, if anyone can lay claim to producing descendants of the original Henry it would be Winchester and even that would be a stretch, those ridiculous ads were almost enough to turn me off but that Golden Boy really did it.

    What more do I want? I want a steel receiver and not a stinking piece of cheap potmetal with fake brass covers hiding what it really is made of!

    The Golden Boy is a fancied up version of a German import that was bought by the new Henry company founder and renamed the Golden boy, it has absolutely no connection to the original Henry and most certainly is nothing more than Zamak under those very fake covers.
    Statistics show that criminals commit fewer crimes after they have been shot

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drm50 View Post
    I never saw the H&R and NEFs as more than minimum
    you could by. The older H&Rs, IJ and Savage/Stevens single barrel guns weren't fancy but they
    were made well of good stuff. H&R went down hill with the push button latch and the one spring
    does it all design.Pump guns with plastic stocks are more profitable and cheaper to produce .

    The older H&R shotguns along with the Stevens shotguns were hard to beat, the last one I bought was a H&R 10 ga. magnum with a 36" barrel that I bought for $89 new IIRC back in the early eighties. I would like to come across one of those now but it seems the big 36" barrels were not all that popular and the last 10 ga. shotguns were shorter so the long ones don't show up in the used market very often.
    Statistics show that criminals commit fewer crimes after they have been shot

  15. #55
    Boolit Master Drm50's Avatar
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    Like oldred says Henry has nothing to do with original Henry Rifles. And they do try to twist that
    into their advertisements. That 22 design was sold by Erma and Ithaca sold some under their name too. The same basic action was also sold in pump version. The looks of it are all phony
    Exterior camouflage covering a action that has nothing in common with a Win lever action or a
    Win 1890 pump that Henry mimics. It's all hype. A neighbor won a yellow boy up at a function
    in Wheeling WVA. Gun has laser picture of old Wheeling with the Suspension Bridge on one side
    and NRA stuff on the other. Kid was told it was $3500 gun. He didn't want to shoot it and had no
    use for a 22 worth that much. He brought it over and wanted me to sell it and he would by a good
    22 and keep the proceeds. When he found out what it's really worth he was down in the Jaws. They will put anything you want on those dust covers for a charge and give you a break on bulk
    orders. Henry my butt. To each his own but these guns will not last down through the generations
    like the old milled parts guns.

  16. #56
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    Two things.
    Ist, H&R still exists. However the only thing listed in their product line is a line of cheap imported pump shotguns.
    Kind of an insult to a Well Known Company name.

    2nd when the "new" henry repeating arms co. came out with their 1st center fire pistol caliber lever gun, they came out with a magazine ad that "claimed" to be S.A.S.S. APPROVED. It was not true & the ad disappeared for about 3-4 months. Until they paid the S.A.S.S. wild bunch (governing body) enough to get their rifles endorsed for S.A.S.S. Competition. I saw a few of those guns. Poor Owners up on a stage fighting their way thru it with that piece of ****. Failure to chamber/feed & double feed.
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  17. #57
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    The point is, Minnesota has a law that firearms cannot be constructed of an alloy that melts at a low temp. I think it is around 1100 degrees. Being as all Henry models are legal to sell here, the metal they are made of is clearly not that heavy in zinc, but again, who cares? It's a dang rimfire! what are you worried about?

    I'm not here to say your opinion is wrong, but it makes a lot more sense now why H&R is gone. I have a number of H&R's, not nearly enough, but all are the push button type. They are the perfect single shot in my view. They were priced well, didn't bother with fancy junk, and just plain worked. I can't stand cheap bolt actions, and I have a thing for the break action. They were a good thing, I want the plastic triggers, as long as the trigger pull is decent (and Handi rifle triggers are decent to me), I want the cheap finish and cheap wood. Unfortunately people who want the same are willing to buy the imported garbage like Rossi, which has nothing on H&R.

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by megasupermagnum View Post
    the metal they are made of is clearly not that heavy in zinc, but again, who cares? It's a dang rimfire! what are you worried about?
    Worried about? Longevity maybe? Lack of durability of a potmetal receiver maybe? Rapid wear? I for one care a great deal about the material my rifle is made of and like most folks I would be Leary of a rifle receiver made of cheap die cast potmetal!

    Zamak 3 which is what the Golden Boy is made of is (after a quick search) according to Roto Metals 96% Zinc and 4% aluminum. It has a melting point of 384 deg.Celsius/723.2 Fahrenheit, a bit of further research on this particular metal reveals it is the most common and widely used alloy for Zinc die castings and thus accounts for most items that we normally think of as "potmetal", it is revealed that it's tensile strength is only approximately 48,000 PSI with the tensile strength of common 360 Brass for comparison being 58,000 PSI! The bottom line is the Golden Boy IS a Zinc die casting (Zamak) and it most certainly is a common Zinc alloy that we often refer to as "potmetal", which is just a slang term for any cheap Zinc based die casting. Like it or not, it is what it is.

    If you have not done so and have access to a Golden Boy just take those phony brass covers off and then tell us what you see, I have done this and I can assure you what you will find is not very impressive!


    BTW, better look into that law a bit more, it's for pistols/handguns that have a melting point of 1000 deg. F. or less. The idea being to eliminate cheap so-called "Saturday Night Specials".
    Last edited by oldred; 07-29-2018 at 12:12 AM. Reason: Added info
    Statistics show that criminals commit fewer crimes after they have been shot

  19. #59
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    I do not have access to a golden boy I can take apart, but just looked up a video. I can't believe your making such a big fuss over that. We make guns of plastic now for pete's sake. I just don't get where such an affordable gun can be looked down on when it performs so well. It won't wear out in a lifetime, that's a bet I'm willing to take. Sure, Henry could make them out of steel, but then they would be $700 like the big boy.

  20. #60
    Boolit Master Jedman's Avatar
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    I have to agree here with megasupermagnum. The Henry is a nice gun for the price, if you want a Marlin 39 A you will pay twice as much as the Henry and that's fine. No one is twisting your arm to buy either one.
    I have one of the early Erma made 22 lever rifle single shots with the dropping block action made from Zamak and it is still a great shooter and works every time and was less than $ 20 new.
    If you compared all of the pump and semi auto shotguns to the original Browning square back based on no stampings, milled steel parts ,finish you would say all the others are junk but it costs a lot to make guns like they did 100 years ago.
    I don't see anything to argue out ?

    Jedman
    Last edited by Jedman; 07-29-2018 at 11:31 AM.

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