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Thread: Rifle Vs 12 Gauge For "Discouraging" Large Bears

  1. #21
    Boolit Master
    Rick Hodges's Avatar
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    It is a question of gun handling for me. Given the two choices the 300 Mag. with 220's is unquestionably more powerful and likely to penetrate and break bones if, you can bring it into action rapidly and accurately at close quarters.
    A short barrel pump shotgun loaded with Brenneke's or the saboted 50 caliber penetrators will also penetrate and break bones. The shotgun would be much faster to bring to bear and with repeat shots. I would leave the buckshot behind, big bears need penetration and breaking of bones....even double ought buck lacks both unless close enough to act like a slug.
    So, my choice is the shotgun, with premium penetrating slugs, easier to carry and easier to use at close range.

  2. #22
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    ^^^ No, not true.

    "Magnum Crush™
    Our Hardest Hitting Slug:
    When the going get rough, you need a specialist. Thatīs when you can count on our Magnum Crush™. It is our hardest hitting slug, delivering a tremendous force of more than 3,800 ft/lbs. So the name Crush comes obvious."

    That is a .730 caliber 666 grain slug with way more penetration.
    "Had his shooting been as good as his running, he might have given a better account of himself."
    James. C. Henderson

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by brass410 View Post
    I have carried 12 gauge for bear discouragement while trapping bait (leeches commercialy) at nite. This involves carrying a pail or two of raw bait in the bush to and from ponds in the dark of night, trust me when I say you haven't experienced a surprise till you set the pail down and a large black bear sticks his head in it the second you let go of the handle. My circumstances are probably different than most but if you have a 12 gauge it will certainly intimidate a bear and IF you have to defend rather than scare it will most likely give the best chance with a slug or 00 buck. I haven't had to kill a bear yet but I certainly have had to evict them from my boat and my truck, black powder blanks work well if you chance up on a bear and want to send him away, but carry pre loaded with buck or slug when unsure while walking. Mostly they don't come looking for you, you usually walk up on them they don't prefer your company either. If he follows you, you wont have a lot of warning, figure on muzzle contact with him.
    lol, I"m not kidding when I say I've had that happen twice with both leeches and Planaria. The best Planaria bait is liver so connect the dots on that one. Want to jump out of your boots? Run a stream or swampy bog pond at midnight with a bucket full of liver.
    Government is the great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else.

    Bastiat

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    non nobis,
    sed nomini tuo da gloriam

    Crux Sacra Sit Mihi Lux

    Tu Ne Cede Malis

  4. #24
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    However, bear in mind (pun intended), that those who have been attacked and didn't have a gun probably would wish they had a gun........

    Words of wisdom right there, Larry
    Government is the great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else.

    Bastiat

    Non nobis Domine,
    non nobis,
    sed nomini tuo da gloriam

    Crux Sacra Sit Mihi Lux

    Tu Ne Cede Malis

  5. #25
    Boolit Buddy
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    I would go with 12ga pump, I can empty that faster then I can a bolt gun.
    We go through life trying to make the best decisions we can based on the best infomation we can find, that turns out to be wrong.

  6. #26
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    Since you are in Canada, headed for the Queens' Reserve, buy what ever slugs Canadian Tire has and carry the 12 gauge. I believe it will be more portable and offer a better second shot then the 300.
    [The Montana Gianni] Front sight and squeeze

  7. #27
    Boolit Master Tripplebeards's Avatar
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    My new little 35 whelen Remington 7600 carbine would be a fun option.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tripplebeards View Post
    My new little 35 whelen Remington 7600 carbine would be a fun option.
    Like!

    250s and it would be good for Polar Bears!

  9. #29
    Boolit Buddy maglvr's Avatar
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    DIXIE slugs and never look back!
    The .357 Magnum......
    1935
    Major Douglas Wesson, using factory loads, which were a 158 gr. soft lead bullet, traveling 1515 fps, from an 8 3/4" barreled S&W, producing 812 ft. lbs of muzzle energy.
    Antelope - 200 yards (2 shots)
    Elk - 130 yards (1 shot)
    Moose - 100 yards (1 shot)
    Grizzly Bear - 135 yards (1 shot).

    It kind of makes one wonder, why today, it will bounce off anything bigger than a rabbit

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by RPRNY View Post
    So the obvious question to ask our resident actuaries is whether they own insurance. I bet they do.

    The Mossberg. Your round ball, or Brenekke slugs, for daytime and 00 Buck for camp at night. A far more concerning risk lies with predators of the two legged variety - much less predictable and substantially more vicious than bears.
    I wouldn't let insurance weigh heavily with me. The trouble with life insurance is that they can't send the payout to your forwarding address. jmort's 2 to 5 bear deaths a year (and I suppose the occasional wilderness disappearance with no corpse to be examined) compares well with twenty to thirty from dogs. I say hello to strange dogs every day, and am confident of living out my natural span.

    I think any superiority of the shotgun over a .300 rifle is pretty illusory, although as others have said, it is important that a heavy large-game bullet is used.

  11. #31
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    The National Park Service issues shotguns to their Rangers, and visiting scientists who roam the Netherlands of Alaska.
    Luvtn

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by luvtn View Post
    The National Park Service issues shotguns to their Rangers, and visiting scientists who roam the Netherlands of Alaska.
    Luvtn
    I'll bet the shotguns don't have 26" barrels on them either. On a charge from nowhere un announced you wont have a whole lot of response time shorter and compact would be my choice

  13. #33
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    Your odds of being killed by insect stings or heart attack are greater than of being killed by a bear. Furthermore beware the American drivers.

  14. #34
    Boolit Master Grmps's Avatar
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    Not one of your options BUT a 50 AE saved a friend of mine from a charging Grizzly while hunting in Alaska, easy to carry and maneuver.

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grmps View Post
    Not one of your options BUT a 50 AE saved a friend of mine from a charging Grizzly while hunting in Alaska, easy to carry and maneuver.
    According to some here, bears pose no threat. Your idiot friend was stupid enough to have a gun with him. What a fool, I hope he regrets being alive. BTW, how many more deaths would there be if no one had a gun or pepper spray? I am not going to be the dummy who goes out unarmed.
    "Had his shooting been as good as his running, he might have given a better account of himself."
    James. C. Henderson

  16. #36
    Boolit Grand Master popper's Avatar
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    My maveric 12ga with heavy slugs would be the choice, lighter, shorter barrel and I possibly could hit a charging bear @ 25-50 yds. If used as a club, not much $ loss. Farther than that and you are hunting.
    Whatever!

  17. #37
    Boolit Master Walks's Avatar
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    A co-worker of my Wife's was killed by a bear while hiking in Yosemite or Yellowstone a few years back. He stood and faced the Bear while he sent his wife
    back down the trail. Being in a National Park He didn't have the option of carrying any kind of firearm for protection. The Bear"spray" he was carrying didn't help him.

    I know a couple of Lodge Brothers that fish in Alaska every spring. They both carry REMINGTON 870 STS 12 gauge Riot guns slung over their backs, loaded with 3" BRENNEKE SLUGS.
    Happiness is a Warm GUN & more ammo to shoot in it.

  18. #38
    Boolit Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by Walks View Post
    A co-worker of my Wife's was killed by a bear while hiking in Yosemite or Yellowstone a few years back. He stood and faced the Bear while he sent his wife
    back down the trail. Being in a National Park He didn't have the option of carrying any kind of firearm for protection.
    How many years ago?

    Congress approved a new law allowing loaded firearms in national parks starting Feb. 22, 2010. That means people can openly carry legal handguns, rifles, shotguns and other firearms and also may carry concealed guns as allowed by state statute.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Grmps View Post
    Not one of your options BUT a 50 AE saved a friend of mine from a charging Grizzly while hunting in Alaska, easy to carry and maneuver.
    A friend of mine stopped the charge of a wild boar in Turkey at six feet, with his 9x56 Mannlicher-Schoenauer. It wasn't very big, except that in those circumstances they are all big. My theory is that it was just trying to escape, and if he had been bow-legged he needn't have bothered.

    What we are discussing here isn't a charge from a wounded animal. But I am pretty well convinced by the big-game hunters who say a wounded animal will dash in a random direction. It isn't looking for payback at all, but if that happens by chance to be your direction, you take the fall. Still, a bear is probably a whole lot more intelligent and vengeful than lions or tigers. If any animal can form the sudden ambition to do away with you, that would be the one.

  20. #40
    Boolit Grand Master

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    A couple of 0.690" RB's will leave a mark for sure (on both ends!). Do you have load data or just using heavy payload birdshot data?

    I have one recipe from Shotgun World for double 0.690" RB but I haven't tried it. I looked up some similar payload recipes and it seems sane but...

    I have been toying with some double ball loads myself but was thinking more like 0.600" or 0.610". It seems the Tri-Ball is popular but I think there is a place for a double ball load as well. Maybe I'll getuit one day.

    Two big(ish) balls at 1200 FPS or so should provide some serious thumping power with not only significant weight but very large frontal area... and hard cast balls should penetrate pretty well.

    Longbow

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