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Thread: New Lyman #457125

  1. #1
    Boolit Mold CeeHoo's Avatar
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    New Lyman #457125

    Here is a new Lyman #457125 500gr mold for .45-70. During initial inspeciton I noticed there was something funny about the alignment. Thought it was caused by a burr right next to one of the alignment pins that might guide the halves off-center. I removed the burr and adjusted pins out a bit to cut all the play but still, to me, the way how the halves come together looks worse than that of my .358" Lyman molds. Is this considered normal? Thanks for any advice.








  2. #2
    Boolit Buddy
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    Send it back! That's what I would do anyway. New moulds should cast round boolits and the halfs should line up!

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  3. #3
    Boolit Bub
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    Agree with hunter74. That's not right. Send it back.

  4. #4
    Boolit Mold CeeHoo's Avatar
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    Thanks guys for replies. After reading Lyman warranty policy I noticed it wouldn't apply in my case. I got this from a friend in U.S. who ordered it from Midway. As I'm not the buyer, I should have sent the mold back to him first and pay all charges. Not really worth it.

    Thought to give this mold a go anyway so here are first results. While eccentricity of end products can be seen if looked really close I think these might still hit angle of a moose. Had to run the pot about 800F to get good fill out of bases but once casting temp was reached it was really easy to get good fill out. I don't know composition of this alloy. It's a mix of all kinds of lead with some tin added, just in case. BHN is about 10, says my noob thumb nail. Boolits weigh 510 grains.

    I guess the biggest problem is that the boolits drop out only at .457". When all else casting parameters were kept the same but mold was switched to two cavity Lyman #358430, a .38 cal. 195gr RN, these bullets came out at .360" which is pretty much as they should.








  5. #5
    Boolit Buddy
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    If they drop too small, use more sb

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  6. #6
    Boolit Master

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    CeeHoo,

    No, your mold halves do not meet correctly.

    Definitely try a little more antimony.

    After that you could try to "Beagle" it or lap it out. "Beagle": Aluminum tape across one or both faces of the mold to enlarge the castings.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kIfcbDCYQPw

    Or, buy a mold that will cast the correct size to start with. (New Lymans are notorious for casting undersize.)

    http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/index.p...ugtmk5vbi3tc13


    Onnea!
    More "This is what happened when I,,,,," and less "What would happen if I,,,,"

    Last of the original Group Buy Honcho's.

    https://youtu.be/a9ePkrmwT3c

    "Salient rules: Heavier the boolit, less twist is needed; more pointed a boolit, less twist is needed; longer the boolit, more twist is needed; the windier the condition, more twist is needed; longer the range, more twist is needed; more of a boattail, more twist is needed; more hollow the point, less twist is needed." ... felix

  7. #7
    Boolit Master


    HangFireW8's Avatar
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    Lapping is an option, especially since it is casting rather small (typical for a modern Lyman). Some more tin and pressure casting with a ladle might give you another .001"... maybe.

    If you decide you have nothing to lose, you could always try physical persuasion. Put one mold block in a vise and whack the other one with a hammer. Check carefully between each hammer hit until it lines up. What you'll probably find is you can line it up, but if will freely shift back as well. Then you'll need to peen the slack side of the alignment hole with a hammer and punch. Again, one hit at a time and check the results carefully before continuing. Peen it only enough to take up the slack, but will still close fully.

    If you peen the hole edge too much, just file it back with a round needle file.

    It's crude, you may ruin the mold, but you may save it. After much use you may find it needs another "tune up" in the same manner.
    I give loading advice based on my actual results in factory rifles with standard chambers, twist rates and basic accurizing.
    My goals for using cast boolits are lots of good, cheap, and reasonably accurate shooting, while avoiding overly tedious loading processes.
    The BHN Deformation Formula, and why I don't use it.
    How to find and fix sizing die eccentricity problems.
    Do you trust your casting thermometer?
    A few musings.

  8. #8
    Boolit Grand Master

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    Lapping it will help with both issues you have. Size and cavity alighnment. O have the pot hot when lapping a mould . Make a few lapps from bullets (3 or so is more than enough) Start with 240-280 grit compound and work the cavity for a few revolutions clean mould and warm up on pot. cast a few bullet to get new size. 320 grit and a few revolutions then clean and cast a few checking size. 400 to 600 grit here and run to desired size.

    To Lap a mould out isn't hard just time consuming.
    Make your lapps I drill the base for a piece of 1/8" key stock and glue it in with epoxy leaving a 1 - 1 1/2" stem
    Use a T tap handle to hold the lapps
    Impregnate the lapp with desired grit by smearing a small amount on flat steel plate and rolling lapp between 2 plates. this pushes the lap compound into the surface of the bullet.
    Lightly oil the cavity and insert the lap into the cavity. I like to hold the blocks in a small toolmakers vise.
    With a tapping motion Back and forth rotation 1/4-3/8 turn make 3-4 rotations rotate 90* and repeat thru 2-3 complete rotations.
    You should see the cutting pattern now when you clean the blocks. Clean and warm cast a few good bullets
    With a new lap and next finer grit repeat above till your at size you desire. I would lapp this out to around .460 as cast with a known alloy
    A side note The 457125 is nose riding check size of nose to rifles bore If small you can lap it up at this time, if not be careful applying compound so to not get any on nose.

    Done right and evenly this will make a very round bullet to desired size

    Before lapping remove any and all burrs fit pins to closest possible, and make sure everything is right. Your hand fitting this mould to these settings a burr wears quick and will change alihjnment when it wears away. A dowel with a pointed end and some of the compound will polish the holes edges with a few spins removing burrs and or dings. Also look around pins for burrs dings and raised edges. Here if they are there remove pins deburr chamfer with the dowel and replace pins.

    Lapping isn't a speed event work slow and careful pay attention and you end up with a very nice mould that casts very accurate bullets.

    When lapping a mould remember removing .001 is .002 on the dia since the .001 is removed all around.

  9. #9
    Boolit Mold CeeHoo's Avatar
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    Many pieces of advice here, thanks a lot.

    At the moment and with intended purpose in mind, it may be I don't have to do anything, other than casting & loading some more. A couple of days ago I made a test round and fired it. As it hit my target, left a round hole and didn't leave observable leading into the bore I decided to load seven rounds more to check accuracy potential on limited basis. Boolits were tumble lubed and used as cast. My load was a Trapdoor max load from Lyman's fourth edition which is 43.5 grains of N135. A really mild shooting cartridge.

    The rifle I used is my Finnish m/39 .45-70 conversion with 27" barrel and open sights. I don't know its exact groove diameter but it has fairly steep 1/16" twist. First I shot and chronographed three rounds and went to see the target after every round. Distance was 50 meters. As those three shots made reasonable sized group of 2.3" (marked in red) and I still didn't see leading in the bore I was comfortable enough to fire the remaining four rounds in a row. Those made a group of 1.6" which in my opinion is well adequate for moose. Still no leading in the bore. I guess obturation was there.

    It was also nice to notice that this load has tendency to shoot to right. All the lighter flat noses I've tried, be it semi-jacketed or commercial hardcasts, have shot to left for which reason the front sight blade is adjusted quite a bit to left also. With this load it could be adjusted quite close to the barrel axis.

    Average velocity measured at four meters from muzzle and at 32F temperature was 1381 ft/s which is kinda slow but don't they say that .45-70 performs best when punkin is rolled slow and heavy?



    Last edited by CeeHoo; Yesterday at 01:44 PM.

  10. #10
    Boolit Grand Master

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    All my BPCR loads with the heavy end bullets 510 lyman round nose 535 postell and a 550 grn by old west moulds run in the 1150-1200 fps range ( muzzle velocity) shoot very accurately hand have no trouble with rams at 500 yds.
    Your load with the lyman bullet at 1380 should be a fine load. More velocity is going to raise the recoil also

  11. #11
    Boolit Master

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    Nice twist on the story . Well done Sr.

  12. #12
    Boolit Master
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    Nothing wrong with that velocity, should work well. Also, have to compliment you on the excellent photos.
    If the mold were mine, I'd still give "beagling" a try. It takes little effort to do, and is completely and easily removed if it doesn't make any improvements.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check