Musings on the writing of Elmer Keith...

[DonH]

While you are correct they are still Eagles.

Again what i have written is not meant in any way to hurt, injure, insult, bait or to be mean spirited to anyone. It is only my opinion based on the very little I know so please take it that way.

For those with their dander up over Elmer Keith shooting eagles, his actions must be put in context. If I recall he wrote of shooting eagles for taking lambs, etc. In a time when the survival of your livestock, nothing which threatened that was safe.
Invmy part of the country sixty years ago a red-tailed hawk was a chicken hawk and in grave danger from farmers with flocks of poultry.

[44MAG#1]

For those with their dander up over Elmer Keith shooting eagles, his actions must be put in context. If I recall he wrote of shooting eagles for taking lambs, etc. In a time when the survlival of your livestock, nothing which threatened that was safe.
Invmy part of the country sixty years ago a red-tailed hawk was a chicken hawk and in grave danger from farmers with flocks of poultry.

I dont know of anyone who has their dander up. Times were different when he was doing what he was doing. If someone has their dander up it would be someone who is young enough to not understand that.
Idaho at one time had a bounty on Golden Eagles. This would be news to many.

Again what I have printed is not meant to hurt, injure, call out or bait anyone. It is just my opinion stated in print and means no harm to anyone here. Thanks.

[eric123]

I enjoy the stories about Elmer Keith...I grew up about a mile from his house in Salmon, but I was too young to know anything about him or who he was. A friend of his taught me how to reload when I was pretty young...A friend of my mom was a member of the Hodgdon family and I got all my powder free, I just had to pay hazmat...If I recall correctly, I was getting jugs of powder for about $17, lat 80's early 90's...Good times...

[frank505]

Driving up the mountain one beautiful day a little mule deer buck came blasting of the hill above us. Right behind him was a golden eagle trying his best to break his back. The mule deer made to a patch of trees, the golden circled a few times and left. When the pups were six months old so golden decided to make a pass at them, he quickly realized that was the wrong thing to do.
So all the protection of predators has done what?????

[9.3X62AL]

So all the protection of predators has done what?????

All of that "protection" has done the same things for predators that soft sentencing, short prison terms, and indulgent parole/probation terms have done for human predators--minimized the threat matrix and incentivized their depredations. Don't get me on THOSE soap boxes.

[W.R.Buchanan]

So why did Mr. Keith use 16:1 alloy? Question of the day.

uhhh,,, 1 oz of tin to one pound of lead. Pretty easy math. KISS.

As far as the Eagles go,,, the Mongolians use them like Falcons and if you had seen an Eagle carry off a goat or large dog you would understand why someone would shoot them. They use them to hunt Wolves

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Re644qgnCtw

If an Eagle Golden or Bald was carrying off your best friend or source of milk for your family you would think differently. Eagles are very powerful predators, and they pick off small dogs in Canada and Alaska as hors-dourves frequently.

Also a good band from the 70's & 80's.

A Great Horned Owl can carry off a 15 lb Cat, and when the cat is scruffed, they just go limp and let it happen. Many cats in our neighborhood come up missing due to owls, and as a result our cats don't go out at night.

Randy

[Shuz]

What ever happened to our resident "catlover" Carpetman?

[MT Gianni]

uhhh,,, 1 oz of tin to one pound of lead. Pretty easy math. KISS.


Randy

One lp lead + one oz tin is 1 in 17.

[44MAG#1]

One lp lead + one oz tin is 1 in 17.

1-16 means 1 pound of tin to 16 pounds of lead. Hence 1-16. 6.25 percent tin..

Again i mean no harm with anything I post. I mean no harm, injury, calling out or baiting. I am simply making a statement based on my opinion. That is all. Nothing else.

[duck hollow pete]

Yes 16lb's plus 1lb =17 lb's total = 5.88%

[dondiego]

Yes 16lb's plus 1lb =17 lb's total = 5.88%

Deleted

[44MAG#1]

This is all a matter of one interpretation of terms. If we are adding 1 pound of tin to 16 pounds of lead that is 1 part tin to 16 parts lead. If you take 16 pounds of lead you need to add 6.25 percent of tin to make the pound. 16X.0625 is 1 pound hence 1 part to 16 parts remembering a pound can be a part. Now in a 17 pound batch of alloy that is tin and lead and you told me the tin content was 5.89 percent (rounded) I would know it had 1 pound of tin and 16 pounds lead. Now If I had 16 pounds of lead and I wanted to know the percentage of tin I would have to add to make it 1-16 i would say 6.25 percent.
16 pounds of lead times 6.25 percent is 1 pound. So i would have 1 part tin to 16 parts lead so 1-16 alloy for a total alloy weight of 17 pounds of which 5.89 percent is tin. Or i added 6.25 percent of the weight of the lead in tin which ia 1-16 alloy.

Again i mean no harm, hurt, being mean or trolling or baiting by what i have said. It is only a statement from my limited knowledge bank which stays nearly depleted.

[duck hollow pete]

No offence intended I keep everything simple by parts it's close enough for me. All the ratio's are supposed to be by weight that's why 10 to 1 stated in the books at 9% 20 to 1 rounded to 5% Just keep it simple for those new to our hobby.

[beagle]

Boys, I apologize for starting this row over eagles. Just stating what Keith wrote. I appreciate seeing an eagle now and then but the ones we see here in KY are baldies. Never saw a golden but Keith wrote that they played havoc with the lamb population out there. And, that was probably in the 50s or 60s. Times have changed. I recall when it was accepted policy to ride country roads in NC and shoot red tailed hawks with a .222. No longer allowed./beagle

[W.R.Buchanan]

Change is inevitable, but Keith was a constant.

I look at guys like him, Whelan, the gunsmiths of the 20's and 30's as the fathers of the bolt action sporting rifle. They changed the sporting rifle concept from leverguns to bolt guns, and Keith had a hand in that too.

He was definately the father of the .44 Magnum and even though he didn't invent the .44 Special,,, he made it "Special!"

I have known guys like Keith and all I can say is that I would have gotten along with him famously. I love the flavor of their speech, and to call him "colorful" would be a gross understatement! He was friggin' rainbow!

I only wish I'd had the chance to know him personally.

Randy

[woodbutcher]

I have the hard cover copy of"Hell,I was there".Have read it several times,and each time it just gets better.Let Dad read it,and he loved it.Heard him laugh and snicker many times over some of it.
Good luck.Have fun.Be safe.
Leo

[Tom W.]

This is all a matter of one interpretation of terms. If we are adding 1 pound of tin to 16 pounds of lead that is 1 part tin to 16 parts lead. If you take 16 pounds of lead you need to add 6.25 percent of tin to make the pound. 16X.0625 is 1 pound hence 1 part to 16 parts remembering a pound can be a part. Now in a 17 pound batch of alloy that is tin and lead and you told me the tin content was 5.89 percent (rounded) I would know it had 1 pound of tin and 16 pounds lead. Now If I had 16 pounds of lead and I wanted to know the percentage of tin I would have to add to make it 1-16 i would say 6.25 percent.
16 pounds of lead times 6.25 percent is 1 pound. So i would have 1 part tin to 16 parts lead so 1-16 alloy for a total alloy weight of 17 pounds of which 5.89 percent is tin. Or i added 6.25 percent of the weight of the lead in tin which ia 1-16 alloy.

Again i mean no harm, hurt, being mean or trolling or baiting by what i have said. It is only a statement from my limited knowledge bank which stays nearly depleted.

It's easier to just melt down W/W... unless you need a specific alloy. Paper doesn't care.....

[44MAG#1]

It's easier to just melt down W/W... unless you need a specific alloy. Paper doesn't care.....

While that is true and i have used WW as my main casting alloy for many years the subject was Keiths 1-16 alloy that he wrote about many times. The ones of us discussing 1-16 were just trying to stick to the subject was all.


Again i mean no harm, hurt, or being mean to anyone with my answer. I was just making a statement based on my belief and/or opinion and nothing else. Please dont take it personally.

[Tom W.]

Not me! Attempting to insert some jocularity is all.....

[lightload]

I think that finding lead was easy for Elmer. Many likely gifted it to him. Also, Elmer had to work hard most of his life and did not have as much free leisure time as we do. Too, much of his shooting was done with revolvers and not pistols. With the .45 Auto I suspect that he was shooting free government ammo. I was born in 1948 and had no trouble locating cases of it that nobody wanted.