38 special HP 158 gr

[weeple2000]

One of my friends bought a bucket of these bullets from a recycler. He then passed on some of them to me. They are 158 grain HP. Checking Hodgdon's site for reloading data, I found a 158 grain lead bullet listed. These are seated deeper than what Hogdgon's recipe calls for. So I believe I am losing some case volume to the bullet base. As I am working on the HP chapter in Ingot to Target, I suspect that is partially due to the fact that the additional weight for the bullet lost from the HP is probably being made up in the case. Hodgdon lists Trail Boss at 2.7 - 4.2 grains. I believe that as long as I am not compressing these loads, they should be fine. The primer is S&B SPP. Headstamp is mixed.

I loaded them with 3.18 grains Trail Boss. I wanted to use Trail Boss because I wanted to be able to see the charge in the case. It was the first time I set my progressive up for 38 special. I had been doing a decent amount of 45 ACP. As a bullseye shooter I've loaded about 2500 rounds in a little over a year. The two bullets on the left side of the second picture - they have some lead flaking a bit. Do I need more flare on my powder through expander die? I am using Lee dies and their Pro 1000. I also have a single stage O press of theirs.

I am also curious if anyone had an idea what these are lubed with. Can you tell by the pictures? I suppose it doesn't particularly matter, either I will get leading and make a change in the load accordingly or I won't.

The first time I set my seating die, I didn't have enough crimp on it. I tried a few rounds in my case gauge and they wouldn't pass. So I adjusted a bit more crimp.

[tazman]

I don't use Trail Boss so I can't discuss the powder charge.
The lead peeling off the boolit is happening during the seating/crimp process. The boolit is still being pushed into the case as the crimp is being applied causing the case mouth to scrape off a small piece of lead. The cure for this is to crimp in a separate step. Seat the boolit, then crimp so the boolit isn't moving when you crimp it in place.
Unless you are having issues with the boolit protruding beyond the cylinder, I would seat those out just a bit more. That would also help with the lead ring issue.

[EMC45]

Those look like Speer swaged lead bullets. Super soft - don't push them too hard.

Like tazman said - seat and crimp in 2 steps.

[35isit]

In my early days of reloading. I shot a bunch of the Speer and Hornady swaged bullets. I seated them down far enough to crimp over the driving band. I used Unique powder.

[Outpost75]

I also think that you need to inside deburr your range brass to break the sharp corner of the case mouth, so that seating doesn't scrape the lube off! You also need to flare the case mouths enough so that you can hand-start the lead bullet into the case about 1/16" to ensure that you don't scrape off the dry lube in the seating process. Your expander plug should be no smaller than 0.0015" less than the soft lead bullet, otherwise you will size down the bullets as you seat them into the case. As was said by others, you also want to seat and crimp in separate operations.

The Redding profile crimp die is recommended, as it is designed for profiling soft lead wadcutter bullets and does not excessively size the bullet by compression inside the case, as the Lee Factory Crimp die is prone to do in some heavier walled brass. Check brass mouth wall thickness with a tubing micrometer and put aside for jacketed bullet use only any brass thicker than 0.010"

[mdi]

If you are getting shavings, it indicates more flare is needed in the case mouth or the crimp is being applied when the bullet is still being seated. Like mentioned above, separating seating and crimping will be the easiest way to eliminate this. Also, I would seat these bullets to the cannalure and lightly roll crimp (in a separate step). I always figggered the folks that designed the bullets knew how much room the bullet should take up in the case and located the cannalure or crimp groove accordingly. Since 1969 I have seated all my revolver bullets to the crimp groove/cannalure and disregarded book OAL...

Since you're shooting a revolver, just use the cylinder as a "gauge" to check rounds. I no longer use case gauges because of a couple problems I've had with them rejecting good, safe, shootable ammo. And besides, I'll be shooting my reloads out of my guns' barrels, not out of a gauge...

[RPRNY]

With 38spl, you can chamfer the case mouth, so that in addition to a reasonable bell for seating, the crimp will be less likely to bite into a soft bullet.

As to TB, essentially, any load that is not compressed by the bullet, and not less than 12% of max will be safe but the best approach is to load to contact, but not compression, (that's max) with bullet base; weigh charge, then reduce by 10%, and work up in small increments (not to exceed max charge) for accuracy. In my experience, TB is most consistent at not much under max.

[Larry Gibson]

I also think those are Speer's not Hornady's.......but either way they will work fine. I shot a thousand or so in years past. I seated separately from crimping to about 1/16" below the front of the drive band. Then crimped with a very slight roll crimp into the bullet. I mostly loaded them over 5.2 gr Unique for +P performance out of my 4 and 5" M15s. I added a coat of LLA to the body which prevent leading at the 950 t0 1000 fps velocity. They performed well.

[sniper]

RCBS is offering a "M" style expander for its .38/357 cartridge dies, and maybe others. THANK YOU, RCBS! This does not "bell" the cases too much, as has happened for the last 100 or so years, creating "trumpet" shaped cases...(don't ask!) but expands minimally to ~.002 (?) over boolit diameter. UNLESS you really farble your die adjustments! (Again...don't ask!) I also chamfer the inside of my cases, to eliminate a lot of the lead or plating scraping that sometimes occurs. Don't go hog wild, just slightly "break" the edge. Cast Boolits, roll crimp in the crimp groove or over the driving band and Plated, taper crimp just enough to move the case mouth against the boolit in a separate operation. Anyhoo, works for me.


Larry Gibson's advice #8 is right on target!

[David2011]

Yeah, forgetting to change the flaring die from .357 to .38 makes for some pretty big bells. OOPSIE!

IIRC the lube on the swaged bullets is some kind of microcrystalline wax. Not bad in its own right if you don't push them too hard. Since they're soft lead there's no need to push them too hard IMO.

[mdi]

The only downside to "too much" flare in a 38 case is shortened life (mostly necks split). But, I have cases I've reloaded maybe 25-30 times, so, I'd suggest you use as much flare as you need to get good shootable ammo now, and worry about case life later. Not a big deal if you only get 12-15 reloadings out of your brass as you are shooting good handloads now.The brass for 38 Special is cheap and abundant, so there's no worry about "running out" or going broke getting brass for your revolver...

[sigep1764]

Some of those old factory lead boolits were lubed with a dusting of mica. I might tumble lube them before loading. As said above, you can adjust your dies by raising the die in the press and lowering the seating stem to apply less crimp less rapidly or switch to dies that separate the processes.

[weeple2000]

Thanks for the advice everyone. I had a couple beers tonight, but next night I have some free time, I am going to try using a little more flare as suggested. I am using a Pro 1000, so I only have 3 stations for dies. I am sizing, then powder through expanding, and the last station is a combination seat/crimp. I do have the factory crimp die but would like to avoid using it to avoid swaging the bullets.

I particularly appreciate the insight on the origin of the bullets. As well as how the bullets are lubed and the velocities to push them at.

[Wheelguns 1961]

Those bullets have a powdered lube. You need to be careful or you will wipe the powder off of them. They should be left in original bag inside box, and only handled by the nose. I use some speer hbwc’s which are lubed the same way.