38wcf or 44wcf

[Texas by God]

I am quite fond of Winchester's original- the 44 WCF.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[bigted]

Well she is gonna be a 38. Maybe the next one will turn into a 44. Got a very used and abused sewer pipe that has been bubba'd and then bubba'd some more. Began life as a round rifle barrel and now it is carbine length and fixin to be even shorter as a result of the bubba.

Keep em coming. Great info gleaned

[ajjohns]

So get it lined and you'll be good as new.

[bigted]

That's prolly gonna happen, however think i will build her with it as is for now just to see how it shoots. Thinkin i will build the whole rifle , shoot it, then decide how to proceed under what deficits it exhibit's ... like how i want to finish it and whether or not to line the barrel. Such fun.

[Bigslug]

Having had moderate exposure to '73's in both chamberings, I think it's sort of like debating 55 or 62 grain bullets in a 5.56 - there just ain't enough difference between 'em to make the buying decision on performance alone. I honestly don't know why they bothered with two different rounds. You probably need to form your own matrix based on molds you have, molds you need, revolvers you want to acquire, etc...

You can load .40 S&W bullets in the .38-40. Did it with NOE 180 RNFP's as an initial load and it worked fine, though it's something I'd ultimately look for a crimp groove on - especially if a matching handgun is in the offing.


I would pour 20-1 and gleefully smack any deer ever made to 100 yards with either. Underrated rounds - both of them - somewhat overlooked after the magnum mania of the 20th Century. These are those same NOE's. As I recall, these were pulled out of the fourth milk jug in the stack (maybe fifth), so a little better than typical police duty loads for penetration. Might get a little better with the 200-ish grain options.

[indian joe]

Having had moderate exposure to '73's in both chamberings, I think it's sort of like debating 55 or 62 grain bullets in a 5.56 - there just ain't enough difference between 'em to make the buying decision on performance alone. I honestly don't know why they bothered with two different rounds. You probably need to form your own matrix based on molds you have, molds you need, revolvers you want to acquire, etc...

You can load .40 S&W bullets in the .38-40. Did it with NOE 180 RNFP's as an initial load and it worked fine, though it's something I'd ultimately look for a crimp groove on - especially if a matching handgun is in the offing.


I would pour 20-1 and gleefully smack any deer ever made to 100 yards with either. Underrated rounds - both of them - somewhat overlooked after the magnum mania of the 20th Century. These are those same NOE's. As I recall, these were pulled out of the fourth milk jug in the stack (maybe fifth), so a little better than typical police duty loads for penetration. Might get a little better with the 200-ish grain options.

Just a cautionary on that last sentence - if ya gonna try heavier boolits in an original 73 - get a handful and test for stability at your longer range before investing in a mold - these old girls had a slower twist than later models - 200 grain might be on the edge of stability at 100yards I think (at Blackpowder velocities)

[Harry O]

There have been discussions about 38-40 vs 44-40 from time to time here. Usually someone mentions (like me) that the 38-40 seems to be more accurate than the 44-40.

I just got the latest Handloader magazine. In it there is a Mike Venturino article on Colt SAA's. In it, he states the following: "For the purposes of this article, I sat down with plug gauges and measured every chamber mouth on two dozen Colt SAAs of all generations. Here are some bare bone facts: Of nine .45s, chamber mouths varied from .453 to .456 inch. Of six 44-40s, the measurements ran from .428 to .431 inch. Five .44 Specials varied from .430 to .433 inch. Now get this: All five of my .38-40, ranging in age from 1904 to 2004, had uniform .400 inch chamber mouths."

That explains a lot. BTW, my Ruger 44-40 Vaquero could not chamber bullets larger than 0.427". The mouth (throat) of the cylinder measured 0.424" and the groove diameter of the barrel measured 0.430". No wonder it could not shoot. A gun like that is pretty well useless unless you have it completely rebuilt for more additional cost than it cost new. Unfortunately, a lot of 44-40's are screwed up dimension wise.

[bigted]

Got some starline brass and could not help myself, just had to see how much 2Fg the case would hold.

Short story , 40 grains of 2Fg KIK powder.

Now i had to see if my 175 grain Lee boolits would crunch the powder enough to seat without bulging and desturbing the case anywhere. YEP seated like a charm.

Don't have any idea if they will shoot worth a darn but now this project can not get done fast enough.

ANYBODY KNOW WHAT THE ORIGINAL LOAD WAS FOR THE 38 WCF?

[jrmartin1964]

ANYBODY KNOW WHAT THE ORIGINAL LOAD WAS FOR THE 38 WCF?

Taken from Winchester Arms & Ammunition Catalogs:
August 1880: 160 grs. Lead, 37 grs. BP;
January 1881: 160 grs. Lead, 40 grs. BP;
June 1887: 180 grs. Lead, 40 grs. BP;
November 1890: 180 grs. Lead, 38 grs. BP.


The last (November 1890) load remained in Winchester catalogs until BP loadings were discontinued just prior to WWII. Smokeless loads for .38.W.C.F. were first cataloged in November 1894, and consisted of a 160 grs. JHP and 22 grs. of DuPont No.2, with a reported velocity (at 50 feet) of 1640 f.p.s. The following year the powder charge was reduced to 16 grs. of DuPont No.2, with a reported m.v. of 1300 f.p.s. The BP load (the same since November 1890) had a reported m.v. of 1268 f.p.s. at 50 ft.

Instruction sheets issued with Winchester reloading tools recommended 2Fg for loading the .38 W.C.F.

Jim

[bigted]

Cool, thanks Jim, that helps.

[Speedo66]

The name says it all: .38-40, in black powder days, the second # on cartridges was supposed to be the black powder load in grains.

Of course, with the .38-40 actually being a .40, that kind of throws things off.

For a light load I put 6g of TrailBoss under a 180g lead boolit.

[Kev18]

I have one in 44-40. First rifle in that caliber. I cast my boolits out of wheel weights for this one. I do light loads just for plinking I really like it so far. Its a decent chunk of lead, so you'll hear it when it hit, but has very little to no recoil.

[bigted]

Nice rifle Kev. Good picture as well i might add

[lazs]

I guess it depends on if you have a .40 caliber gun which.. I do not. l don't load for 40 so the 44-40 at .429 barrel is basically a 44 spl/mag bullet. for some reason they all use 200 grain FP bullets so I got a two cavity Lee mold in .429.. once I powder coat it is like .430

So for me.. a 44 caliber bullet is much better.

lazs