toyota

[bangerjim]

Do what you must. But here in AZ I would be glad to pay $3-4K to get my AC working again in the summer heat! ( and I have, in an American-made Dodge van I had years ago!) You do not get nearly as hot up there and can probably live without it for the possible 1-2 years it will take you to go thru arbitration and court proceedings.


Good luck.

Banger

[Traffer]

The Toyota part is not what is bad. It's the "hybrid" part and "computer" part and the "modern" part. Since they are making things so frikin complex with all parts interdependent by the feedback of computers, nobody but a Toyota dealer can fix them. AND WHAT IS worse, is that those guys don't know how to fix them either, since no one knows how the inner workings function...the whole expensive part has to be replaced. Like have a bad valve in an older car and having the dealer say you need a new engine. IT HAPPENS ALL THE TIME. You might want to research your area to see if there is a Toyota dealer who is extremely highly praised that actually knows how to fix them a second opinion is not reserved for just doctors...
Good luck... let us know how it works out.

[Lloyd Smale]

buy what you want but don't compare a new Toyota to a 1990s or 1980s American car. Domestic brands have made big gains in quality and reliability. I don't much care how reliable your 1985 Toyota was or how unreliable your 1985 ford was. Im not buying either. Bottom line is todays domestic brands are every bit as reliable as imports. Like I said just look at Toyota. there the king of recalls in the 2010s. For every Toyota truck you can find me with 200k on it I can find you 10 domestic brands with just as many that have been just as reliable. Everyone talks money saved. I showed you in a previous post that between cost of parts and the fact they lag in fuel economy you save nothing and probably loose money. Its why about every fleet vehicle in the country is either a chev or ford. they factor in not only the cost of buying but fuel economy and maintenance. they care about profit not brand loyalty and if Toyotas saved them money in the long run its all you would see on a construction sight. In reality its rare to see them there. Its rare to see a utility company using them. It even rare to see a car rental place that uses more imports then domestics.

While I don't have the knowledge and intel that you have on the Big 3...I do have some anecdotal evidence that others who buy new cars don't have. I like cars and have a passion for changing up what I own ever few years...and I am thrifty/cheap whatever you want to call it, so I try to buy a used car cheaply enough to get that last 50K miles out of it, and consider the gamble of what repairs I have to make are hopfully less than monthly payments.

My current toyota and previous honda have had few repairs, both were bought with over 200Kmi. I sold the honda when it reached 254K and the rust was scarry...now my current car, the toyota has 245k.

American cars I've owned in the last two decades were, 98 Buick park ave, 3 different Jeeps from the 90s, dodge dakota, ford escort wagon, chev pickup, chev van...and they all needed more expensive repairs than the two japanese cars...and none of the American cars made it to 250k without being too scarry to drive on a daily basis.

Yep that is all anecdotal, so it is, what it is.
I may buy a American brand car again, but it has to 'speak' to me...if I'm just buying something to drive, it'll be a japanese brand...I've never owned a subaru...that may be next? But the current toyota I own ('05 matrix) is still in amazing shape, I expect it to hit 300K before I am too scarred to drive it.

[Lloyd Smale]

My dad had one of those bullet proof suburu outbacks. At 40k it cost him over 3k to fix that fancy one speed transmission. His neighbor had a forester. two head gaskets in 80k. Now that's not to say suburu's are junk. Far from it. But there not bullet proof either. He did say he was thankful for one thing. they hold the title of best resale value because his went right to the chev dealer and was traded on a traverse. He said its better riding has twice the power and gets just as good gas mileage.

[Lloyd Smale]

My dad had one of those bullet proof suburu outbacks. At 40k it cost him over 3k to fix that fancy one speed transmission. His neighbor had a forester. two head gaskets in 80k. Now that's not to say suburu's are junk. Far from it. But there not bullet proof either. He did say he was thankful for one thing. they hold the title of best resale value because his went right to the chev dealer and was traded on a Equinox . He said its better riding has twice the power and gets just as good gas mileage. Did he make a wise decision. Who knows. He wont be around to see it hit a 100k let alone 200. Like me he even if he did live long enough he will let someone else worry about keeping an old wore out vehicle on the road. Lifes to short. I worked all my life to be in a position that I don't have to drive beaters. So did he.

[snowwolfe]

I dont understand what the issue is. Toyota gave the car a warranty for what, 3 years or more and/or 36,000 miles ? After the warranty expires something broke. Toyota upheld their end of the deal. Quit whining and write a check.

[mold maker]

I find reliability to directly relate to the number of convenience add-on stuff installed. For instance, the driver window motor is usually the first problem.
Every vehicle I've owned equipped with power windows has had it die first and usually replaced about every 60K. My current 03 Dodge has no add in extras and except for normal maintenance has been trouble free. In over 50 years driving vehicles up to 30 years old, I have overhauled only one engine and two transmissions. Until the last couple years I've done all my own preventive maintenance. Right now I own four Dodges and a Chevy.
Vehicles, like women, require finesse and regular TLC.
BTW
I'm still with the first wife after 54 years. New isn't always better.

[rancher1913]

when you pay the kind of money you do for a new car, you should not have to "stop whining and pay the man" for a component that has a very high failure rate, they know this is a bad design and are trying to hide it, that won't fly with me. yah, nobody will get killed by this like the air bag scandal, but at some point somebody needs to not just "rollover and take it"

[andre3k]

Since you know what parts need to be purchased, I would start with Rock Auto and other places online to purchase the parts. Then find an independent shop with the proper equipment to do the install.

Most manufacturers bumper to bumper warranty ends at 3yrs or 36k miles. Powertrain warranty is usually good until 60k. A/C system components would fall under the bumper to bumper warranty unless you bought an extended warranty.

[snowwolfe]

When did the factory warranty expire?

[White Oak]

I have NEVER been to, driven past or seen a Automotive Dealership of any make that does not have a repair facility.
Automobiles are mechanical devices designed and manufactured by humans. If you think of the numbers of vehicles in service around world, an internet search of any problem will get multiple hits.

[Elkins45]

Auto brand loyalty is like a religion to some people.

I just sold my 2007 Corolla this winter. Bought it new for $14,400 on the road. Sold it with 178K miles on it. I replaced the intake manifold gasket because the factory ones that year weren’t springy enough and started letting in air. Cost me $7. That’s all I did besides fluids and filters. It still had the original rear brake shoes and they had plenty of lining left.

Sold it too cheap: $3K. Still, that means I got 178K miles for 11.4K dollars, or in other words I paid about 6.4 cents per mile for the car. It got 38mpg. So yeah, I’m a fan.

My brother still drives his 2000 Tacoma every day. I think it has about 250K miles. He’s a fan too.

[HangFireW8]

I would be torqued too if hit with a bill like that. But I would also seek a second opinion and Toyota's help too.

Fortunately my Toyota is unafraid to conform to Asian reliability stereotypes.

[Traffer]

I dont understand what the issue is. Toyota gave the car a warranty for what, 3 years or more and/or 36,000 miles ? After the warranty expires something broke. Toyota upheld their end of the deal. Quit whining and write a check.

Dude that was harsh.

[Traffer]

OK, folks here we go again:
It's not the brand that is the problem. It's the "modern technology". They are selling cars nowadays by "how much crazy computer stuff they do" Not good folks, Not good. So how reliable is your 6 or 8 year old computer? Nobody knows because they are all replaced every 5 years. That same mentality is governing the manufacture of automobiles now. Who cares if it runs past the warranty? They hope it dies the day after the warranty expires...after all you need new car by then, cuz there is some new camera angle or new auto pilot thingy on it.
That is the NEW paradigm in auto manufacture. Poorer people are out of the loop now. It used to be that a poor guy could buy an older car and keep it running himself. With a few hundred worth of Harbor Freight tools, a little know how, youtube videos and some "I don't care if I get my hands dirty" a guy could drive one of those older Honda's or Toyota's or whatever for another 100 or 200 thousand miles on the cheap.
Back in 1999 I had the opportunity to buy a Brand New Honda Civic. My only new car. I have had it now for 19 years and it is STILL THE BEST CAR I HAVE EVER OWNED. It has got 240k miles on it. I only drive about 4k mi per year now but I have seen that exact model have over 700K on it and still look and drive like a new car.
For a while in the early 3rd gen of ecu development (I think) they had the right idea...The ECU could be programmed with a laptop and the right program. Making them wonderfully flexible to "tuners". This kind of user friendly tech was what I had hoped would bring a new generation of modifiable/mechanic friendly vehicles. But NOPE. they did away with the concept of programmable ecu's.
Now there is one option...Like computers, if it goes bad, throw it away and get a new one.
I believe that eventually this new paradigm will fall but the industry is speculating that Electric cars will rule the future so the throw away car is an acceptable transition.
This is my OWN OPINION. It may be incorrect by as I always say. Everyone is entitled to MY own opinion.

[Elkins45]

^^^^ This is a common attitude, but it is emotional and not empirical. Cars today are better and more reliable than they have ever been in the past.

My old 67 Impala had a 327 and the sticker on the breather said “275 HP” There are a whole bunch of V6 engines that put out more HP than that today, including the one they put in the Toyota Camry. At 100K every system on that car was just about worn out and the paint was 80% gone.

When I was growing up if you got 100k out of a vehicle then it was pretty much at the end of its service life. Nowadays that’s still a good used car with plenty of life left. When you look at the longevity data, there’s never been a better time to buy a car. Yes, newer cars are more complex to work on, but they offset that by not needing work as often and by saving money on fuel.

The only way that older cars were better is in terms of collision repair and low speed damage. Today cars are so light you can’t even lean on them for fear of denting them. Older cars with heavier metal needed a good whack to show some damage. Now I don’t know if that translates into occupant survivability or not. It may well be that these newer cars that sacrifice themselves in a collision might be safer than the old heavy metal tanks were.

[Traffer]

^^^^ This is a common attitude, but it is emotional and not empirical. Cars today are better and more reliable than they have ever been in the past.

My old 67 Impala had a 327 and the sticker on the breather said “275 HP” There are a whole bunch of V6 engines that put out more HP than that today, including the one they put in the Toyota Camry. At 100K every system on that car was just about worn out and the paint was 80% gone.

When I was growing up if you got 100k out of a vehicle then it was pretty much at the end of its service life. Nowadays that’s still a good used car with plenty of life left. When you look at the longevity data, there’s never been a better time to buy a car. Yes, newer cars are more complex to work on, but they offset that by not needing work as often and by saving money on fuel.

The only way that older cars were better is in terms of collision repair and low speed damage. Today cars are so light you can’t even lean on them for fear of denting them. Older cars with heavier metal needed a good whack to show some damage. Now I don’t know if that translates into occupant survivability or not. It may well be that these newer cars that sacrifice themselves in a collision might be safer than the old heavy metal tanks were.

Are you kidding? I am not comparing these new cars to old american hunks of scrap metal from the 60's to the mid 80's. I am talking about the cars (and I mean Japanese cars) made from the mid 80's till the mid 2000's There have been no innovations in metallurgy, or basic design. the changes have been in applying technology...More computer control, more gadgets.
And yes you COULD keep them running but how many people really know how to service these new cars? The dealer's service people get by by changing the major part that dies instead of being able to fix individual parts.
To compare a 67 Chev to a 2000 Honda is like comparing axe to a milling machine. But again the paradigm has changed. the more recent cars are no longer serviceable within reason.
PS it's a cheap shot to say "emotional and empirical" argument. Did you learn that from your liberal teachers?

[Elkins45]

I don’t think my 2007 Corolla had any “gadgets” on it that my 1997 didn’t, other than variable valve timing.

[bangerjim]

New cars are far safer than older ones. With all the airbags, crumple-designed bodies and frames, you are more likely to survive a moderate to severe accident than in the old days.

Think of all the many people back in the 50’s and 60’s that were severely injured or killed by simply slamming into the METAL dash, steering wheel, or going thru the windshield!!!!!! And it did not take a very severe accident to cause those things.

Engines used to be shoved back into the front seat! Now they are designed to “dive low” and minimze intrusion into the passenger cabin.

Airbags, both front and side, save lives. I just witnessed a red-light running (45MPH) BIG SUV t-bone an Accura and ALL the bags went off right B4 my eyes!!!!! Amazing site. The car passengers survived. Doubt that would be the case 20+ years ago.

We all love hi-tech stuff. Same in our cars. My recent cars are MANY times smarter than the 60’s moon lander! They do everything INCLUDE talk. But that stuff will fail and a grease-monkey cannot fix it. I do not trust neighborhood grease-monkey shops around here to work on my modern, hi-tech cars.

One thing that was true with the Model T and is still true with current models: “A car is trouble looking for an inconvenient place to happen!”

[bangerjim]

I don’t think my 2007 Corolla had any “gadgets” on it that my 1997 didn’t, other than variable valve timing.

Your car operates on CAN-buss technology. Every modern car uses CAN-buss to do everthing about carburation, timing, emissions monitoring, etc. Your driving patters are even in there.

It’s there.....it just is transparent to you driving the car.