Graf & SonsMidSouth Shooters SupplyTitan ReloadingRotoMetals2
Inline FabricationStainLess Steel MediaLee PrecisionADvertise here

Results 1 to 15 of 15

Thread: Modifying M92 357 Cartridge Guides

  1. #1
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    943

    Modifying M92 357 Cartridge Guides

    Anyone done it? I want a little longer OAL load to feed. I think I can modify the guides to release earlier, but am looking for others with experience. I would buy new guides, install and check for function, and then modify. Changing to a lighter/shorter bullet is the obvious answer, but that would be too easy.
    Tony

  2. #2
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Posts
    478
    Quote Originally Posted by AnthonyB View Post
    Anyone done it? I want a little longer OAL load to feed. I think I can modify the guides to release earlier, but am looking for others with experience. I would buy new guides, install and check for function, and then modify. Changing to a lighter/shorter bullet is the obvious answer, but that would be too easy.
    Tony
    I have had 92's all my life - I built a 32-20 up to 38-40 last year - that meant extensive work on the cartridge guides (all the innards really) - not really getting you here ? Whats actually happening to mess up feeding ? What profile boolit are you getting hung up with (nose shape) - when you say "release earlier" do you mean want the rim of the case to pop up out of the guides quicker?

  3. #3
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Location
    brisbane ,qld,australia
    Posts
    485
    Its the length stop on the lifter that needs altering...........But its a lot simpler to seat the bullet a little deeper,and maintain correct OAL...........there isnt much to play with in a 92.......If you wreck the lifter,a spare might be expensive.

  4. #4
    Boolit Master Texas by God's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    4,844
    Quote Originally Posted by john.k View Post
    Its the length stop on the lifter that needs altering...........But its a lot simpler to seat the bullet a little deeper,and maintain correct OAL...........there isnt much to play with in a 92.......If you wreck the lifter,a spare might be expensive.
    This.^^^^^

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

  5. #5
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Prineville, Oregon
    Posts
    292
    I really wanted my Rossi 357 to feed the 180 grain RNFP LBT boolit that my GP100 loves. The length stop on the lifter was OK, the length itself would not be a problem. But as must be the case with your rifle, the cartridge guides wouldn't let the long cartridge turn fast enough to chamber. I polished and ground and tried and finally went too far and the cartridge would pop clear out of the rifle when trying to chamber a round. I added back a little metal with welder and ground and polished until it works again with normal length ammo, but have given up on getting the extra long 357/180 to feed. I now put that fine boolit in 38 special cases for the Rossi using .357 level powder charge and that's the way it has been for many years. And turns out the revolver shoots it fine also.

    I'm watching this thread to see if someone shows up who really knows how to get 'er done.

  6. #6
    Boolit Master

    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Way up in the Cascades
    Posts
    2,122
    Life is a continuous learning process, isn't it. I've got just about exactly the same problem that I'm working my way through with a 1892 replica that was made by Armi San Marco. Beautiful rifle in .44-40. I knew that the internet asking price of $575 flat was too good to be true, having been around the rimrock a couple of times, and strongly suspected there would be a gunsmithing problem. Sure enough, it won't feed. The cartridge will rise to the bolt face but jams on the forward stroke. So I disassembled it and found that the cartridge guides had already been worked on by a previous owner. The slots in the guides have been filed back, downward, and polished. I played and played with it and came to the conclusion that the previous owner was on the right track and that it just needed more of the same. The guides are the last part to come out of the receiver, so disassembly/assembly takes time, and I've had it apart 4 times now. It is a "cut and try" job. I'm pretty sure that next time will get the job done, as it's only the thickness of the case rim from releasing the cartridge from the back half of the guide to continue forward and it will now sometimes work with more lever pressure than should be necessary. Just need to find the time to finish it up, as I'm heavily involved with a couple of non-gun projects. The guides have now been modified to the point that I have to wonder (1) how the heck did this thing get out of the factory, and/or (2) are these even the original or proper guides. Since ASM is out of business, just buying and installing a replacement pair of guides didn't seem to be an option. I'm pretty sure the problem is almost solved, but if worse comes to worse I'll have to see if another brand's guides will fit. Anyway, thought you'd like to know that you're not the only guy with this problem.

  7. #7
    Boolit Master

    Reg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Gateway to the Rockies
    Posts
    1,247
    Have worked on a number of the little 92,s both import and domestic and the best advise I can give is leave the cartridge guides alone. The operating perimeters are too close. Sometimes you can cut back the stop on the follower but even that is not recommended as it can lead to failure to feed I. E. , jams.
    The lengths, arcs and travels that Browning came up with were what he thought would be correct for the bullets weights and overall cartridge lengths that would be commonly available at the time and they were, it has only been in the past few years that the desire to use more than a normal weight bullet has become popular.
    With a lot of work you might find a perfect combination that might feed your 180 gn. bullet but I bet you will then find it wont want to work with anything else and then you wind up with something that when you tire of it and you send it down the road the next fellow winds up with something that is nothing but a PITA for him and he might not be able to find parts for it even if he can figure out what you did.
    Yes, you can seat the bullets deeper in the case to control the OAL but remember that will raise operating pressures often drastically and these are not super strong actions to begin with.
    Nothing wrong with wanting better performance, that's what we all are after.
    Try different alloys or perhaps bullet designs but do think twice before taking a grinder to any of the parts.

  8. #8
    Boolit Master
    GOPHER SLAYER's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Cherry Valley ,Ca.
    Posts
    1,927
    Having done work on original 92 Winchester rifles I think I can speak with a little authority. In the first place the action on rifles chambered for the 32-20 & 25-20 are not the same as actions chambered for the 38-40 & 44-40. The hole in the front of the action for larger cartridges is lower than the hole in the action for the smaller cartridges. I owned six of these rifles and carbines at one time and what I found was that if at all possible, leave them as they left the factory. The man who designed them knew what he was doing. I have never owned a replica.
    A GUN THAT'S COCKED AND UNLOADED AIN'T GOOD FOR NUTHIN'........... ROOSTER COGBURN

  9. #9
    Boolit Master


    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Northern Michigan
    Posts
    2,830
    Try contacting Steve’s Gunz. He does a lot of 92 work on CAS guns and may have an opinion or advice for your problem...he may even do the work.
    Don Verna

    NRA Endowment Member

  10. #10
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    943
    Thanks for all the replies. I should have been a little more specific. I was attempting to load several times fired brass that has not been trimmed, so checking the length is probably where I should start, but I hate to trim a couple thousand pieces of 357 brass. The last two bullets I tried are the RCBS 38-158CM and the Lee 158 RF. Round will leave the magazine and the lifter raises them with no problem, but the nose of the bullet hits in the top of the chamber before the cartridge guides release the rim of the loaded round. This is with both bullets seated to cover the crimp groove. It is very close and wouldn't require much relief to get them to feed. The rifle feeds jacketed HPs with no problems at all. Next step is to cast some different bullets with a less blunt nose shape, and I may have to trim brass or buy new from Starline.

  11. #11
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Bluegrass State
    Posts
    578
    Even if you buy new Starline brass, it will probably need trimmed to get all cases the same length for consistent seating, crimp, etc.

  12. #12
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Posts
    478
    Quote Originally Posted by AnthonyB View Post
    Thanks for all the replies. I should have been a little more specific. I was attempting to load several times fired brass that has not been trimmed, so checking the length is probably where I should start, but I hate to trim a couple thousand pieces of 357 brass. The last two bullets I tried are the RCBS 38-158CM and the Lee 158 RF. Round will leave the magazine and the lifter raises them with no problem, but the nose of the bullet hits in the top of the chamber before the cartridge guides release the rim of the loaded round. This is with both bullets seated to cover the crimp groove. It is very close and wouldn't require much relief to get them to feed. The rifle feeds jacketed HPs with no problems at all. Next step is to cast some different bullets with a less blunt nose shape, and I may have to trim brass or buy new from Starline.
    I had an early Rossi 357 - it fed the LEE 158 ok - just a touch sticky at times but ok - the jacketed HP were slick as could be - I think you might be on the right track looking for a boolit with more curved nose - do you know anyone has the LEE 358-125 RF ----crimp groove is in the correct place - bit more curve at the nose - a handful of those would be worth a try for feeding function - maybe a general polish inside might help? - just a touch with 1000grit wet and dry then jewellers rouge on a cotton swab/stick.
    My 32/20 to 38/40 conversion 92 took some serious work - part of it is the shape and polish of the ejector - as the round feeds forwards it has to slide up across the ejector as the bolt pushes forwards - that can hang it up. If you do go to modify the guides look at the rear face of the groove rather than the forward edge - the rear edge gives more rim clearance but if you take metal from the forward edge of the groove you actually delaying feed (think about that it will make sense!) Be very careful about messing with the stopper on the lifter - its not just a cartridge stopper!! - the top height of the stopper engages a curve in the lever and that is critical for return of the lifter to its lowered position

    A properly functioning 92 is not usually very sensitive to cartridge OAL - nothing like a toggle link is - but for sure the Winchester cases feed nicer than the straight sided pistol cases that came along later in clones - nose profile is the first (easiest) place to look for improvement.

  13. #13
    Boolit Master Texas by God's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    4,844
    I too have been to this rodeo, mostly with Rossis. A 44-40 and several .357s have drove me nuts before.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

  14. #14
    Moderator Emeritus


    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    SW Montana
    Posts
    9,878
    I have two Rossi's in 357. One feeds 357 160 gr wfn like water flows. The others max is a 358156 in 38 special cases. It will not feed a 110 gr 357 case. I load the 358156 to the old Skeeter specs as it is the only 158 gr swc that feeds. Somethings are just not worth throwing money at.
    [The Montana Gianni] Front sight and squeeze

  15. #15
    Boolit Bub
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Raytown, Mo.
    Posts
    26
    my wife's 357 rossi loads and shoots the lee 358-158 with no problems. it is a round flat nose. I got the six cavity mold and it barley keeps up with her two rugers and the rossi. I use starline 357 nickle plated brass.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check