My lead/pewter alloy is a pain to cast with

[Neverhome]

Do I just hit up BNE on private message?

[Grmps]

Yes, his going rate is 1# of pure lead per XRF

[Silvercreek Farmer]

Are all the casting attempts with the same mold? If so, try another one. It may be a venting problem.

[Dusty Bannister]

In post #1 it stated "BTW I confirmed it's the alloy that is the problem by casting using two other alloys and they worked as expected. Shoot one of them wasn't an alloy at all! I used straight lead and it filled out better than the pewter alloy.

So what's the deal? Did I screw up and mix something else into my pewter? Any other possibilities?"

It was suggested several times that the best thing to do was to send a sample to BNE for testing if you do not have someone that can XRF scan a sample locally. Yes, contact him via PM and verify that he still does this and his fee is a pound of LEAD per sample tested. It does not need to be pure, but can be about anything. Probably not a good idea to send a pound of the junk you want tested though. Then you will know what you have and choose the best way to resolve the problem. Often the best thing to do with a small lot of contaminated alloy is to cast it into small ingots as you nearly drain the pot. Leave some in the bottom so you do not draw all the dross into the valve area. Depending upon what the problem is, many times you can use the bad alloy by alloying it in very small amounts with good alloy and make usable bullets so all is not lost. You might have a lot of tin in your alloy and at least it would still serve some purpose. If you have a substantial amount of this poor alloy, then you might have to consider other alternatives. Regardless, if it does have some contamination you will want to clearly mark the ingots with a heavy stamp. In this case, take a length of small diameter pipe, file a notch at one point so when you strike the "stamp" into the ingot it leaves an impression "C". Then you will know at a glance it is not your good casting alloy.

This is not the end of the world, but a fair speed bump like many you will encounter when using scrap alloys. Thankfully, I have been able to avoid the Faux Pewter problems by working with known solder samples. It happens though. And this is why the earliest reply was to get the sample scanned so you know what your problem is. There are a lot of wise heads that are very experienced in the use of Pewter and a whole section on how to ID it by the quality of the piece as well as the hallmark. If you are going to play in those woods, be able to ID the poisonous bushes and use that "sticky" as intended. Take this as a learning experience, we all have them. Good luck in the future.
Dusty

[lightman]

BNE is a great Guy to deal with! I just got some results back from him. Send him a PM for an address. He is usually pretty quick but He does have to work this in around his work load. I usually ask him what type of lead he prefers and I send a little extra!

Like someone else posted, I suspect that you got some zinc in your mix. The Pewter Hallmark sticky has lots of pictures and lots of good information in it. I wish pewter was more plentiful around here.

[bangerjim]

Interesting! Thanks for the tip.
Most metals will react with strong acids. Meaning tin and antimony should as well. Is zinc so reactive that there would be no confusing its reaction for one with tin and antimony?
I remember once upon a time putting chunks of zinc into a vial of HCL and collecting the hydrogen gas that was released. Then we'd ignite the hydrogen. Good fun in chemistry class

Sn an Sb have virtually no apparent immediate reaction to HCl. That is why the test is so useful. Zn reacts violently, as you know from your H2 generation "experiment".

Iron, cadmium, cobalt, nickel, tin and lead do not react with water, but hydrochloric acid will dissolve them, displacing the hydrogen from the HCl.

Antimony does not react with hydrochloric acid in the absence of oxygen. ... When heated, antimony reacts with oxygen in air forming Sb2O3

Try it and see if you have Zn in there. Low concentrations of Zn will react slowly and you may need some magnification to see the bubbles form, but they will.

[Neverhome]

Thank you everyone! I think I have my plan of attack now. Alot of good input!

[Traffer]

i am having the same problem. I had some lead that I just put some little pieces of melted and broken pewter into. Not much at all...I wouldn't think over 5%. My bullets are all wrinkly, small gaps on the sides etc., These are just cores for swaging 22lr so I wasn't too concerned but as I have changed my "system" to powder coating the cores, then swaging to final size, they end up looking crappy. I was thinking, like some have suggested here, to run the pot hotter. I don't have a thermometer either but can just heat them till they start getting frosty then back off the heat a notch. That seems to cast the best boolits with any alloy anyway.

[Neverhome]

Sn an Sb have virtually no apparent immediate reaction to HCl. That is why the test is so useful. Zn reacts violently, as you know from your H2 generation "experiment".

Iron, cadmium, cobalt, nickel, tin and lead do not react with water, but hydrochloric acid will dissolve them, displacing the hydrogen from the HCl.

Antimony does not react with hydrochloric acid in the absence of oxygen. ... When heated, antimony reacts with oxygen in air forming Sb2O3

Try it and see if you have Zn in there. Low concentrations of Zn will react slowly and you may need some magnification to see the bubbles form, but they will.

Corner Ace Hardware had quarts of Muriatic/ Hydrochloric acid.
Tried it on my alloy ingots and had a slight bubbling reaction.
Tried it on my actual "pewter" ingots and got an immediate much more pronounced bubbling reaction.
Seems pretty definitive!

So now what? All my pewter is homogenized so it's all like this. Can I salvage it?
Or do you think I can cut it enough to make the zinc a nonissue? I guess that would depend on how much is actually in there. Small batch trial and error would probably work I imagine.

[Neverhome]

I've heard fluxing with sulfur works...
Where would one readily get sulfur?

[Dusty Bannister]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...om-molten-lead

Just read the sticky carefully. Your questions will be answered. There are six pages of posts and you will be better prepared to deal with this after you read ALL of it, especially the WARNINGS about the use of Sulfur. And the disposal of the residue it creates. Sometimes it is better to just put the project aside and deal with it when weather conditions are more favorable.

[bangerjim]

You can get sulfur in any plant store. Very common stuff for plant people.

Copper sulfate works better and is not nearly as dangerous. You get it in a big box store in the PLUMBING SECTION (not nursery) for root killer for plumbing and septic tanks. I have used it in expreimenting with Zn contamination I purposely made (~5%) to find out about the proceedure. I have never unintentionally had Zn in any alloys I use.

There are a bunch of threads on here about that CuSO4 procedure also. Do a search and read...read....read.

Bottom line is..........you melted a bunch of unknown carp “pewter” into ingots/mixes wothout pre-testing any of it, and now those ingots cannot be separated into primary elements ( by the average home hobbyist anyway!).

That is a perfect example of why I keep all things like pewter, lino, and other alloys I buy in their ORIGINAL form......just in case there is a problem down the line. Making several hundred pounds of your “favorite” alloy like so many on here always talk about is not a very good idea if you do not know for 100% sure EXACTLY what is in there.

Good luck with your “stuff”. Mabe you can find the perfect casting proceedure and temp to make it work for your needs. And remember.........always hold your mouth right! HA.......ha!

Bangerjim

[Neverhome]

Im working on getting it out with sulfur. Only problem now is I can't tell when I'm done!

Link said to stop when I stop seeing sulphites formed. Well how do I tell?

[bangerjim]

I just got back from the back shop and I tested 9 different alloys with HCl acid. NONE of them reacted with the acid. These alloys range from COWW, SOWW, hardball, pure Sb, pure Sn, pure Pb, low-temp Bi alloys, old pewter, L#2, new pewter.......you name it.......I go it! NO reaction bubbles. Period. Some blackened a teeny weeny bit after a minute or so of exposure, but no real reaction.

Then I took a hunk of Zn I have and the drop of acid fizzed up immediatley! There are different alloys of Zn out there and each will respond differently....but ALL will show bubbles and action.

If you are getting H2 bubbles off your “pewter” alloy ingots, you definitely got Zn or some other unknow element (not the ones listed in my above post) in there.

There is a ton of cheap carp Zn-based metal decorative junk out there in junk and thrift stores and it is hard to tell it from REAL pewter. Most of it plated to disguise the base matal. I bet you even may have chrome-plated Zn bathroom fixtures! I did - - - B4 ripping them all out and going only with quality solid SST. Only HCl will tell the real story.

Sorry, but it looks like you might have a big batch of containated “stuff”.

Good luck

Bangerjim

[Neverhome]

I just got back from the back shop and I tested 9 different alloys with HCl acid. NONE of them reacted with the acid. These alloys range from COWW, SOWW, hardball, pure Sb, pure Sn, pure Pb, low-temp Bi alloys, old pewter, L#2, new pewter.......you name it.......I go it! NO reaction bubbles. Period. Some blackened a teeny weeny bit after a minute or so of exposure, but no real reaction.

Then I took a hunk of Zn I have and the drop of acid fizzed up immediatley! There are different alloys of Zn out there and each will respond differently....but ALL will show bubbles and action.

If you are getting H2 bubbles off your “pewter” alloy ingots, you definitely got Zn or some other unknow element (not the ones listed in my above post) in there.

There is a ton of cheap carp Zn-based metal decorative junk out there in junk and thrift stores and it is hard to tell it from REAL pewter. Most of it plated to disguise the base matal. I bet you even may have chrome-plated Zn bathroom fixtures! I did - - - B4 ripping them all out and going only with quality solid SST. Only HCl will tell the real story.

Sorry, but it looks like you might have a big batch of containated “stuff”.

Good luck
Bangerjim

Well thankfully neither my alloy nor my supply of "pewter" was very substantial. I won't lose any sleep over it even if I can't recover it. Lessons are worth more than what I have invested.

That being said however I'd still like to know how to tell when Im done!

[bangerjim]

Well thankfully neither my alloy nor my supply of "pewter" was very substantial. I won't lose any sleep over it even if I can't recover it. Lessons are worth more than what I have invested.

That being said however I'd still like to know how to tell when Im done!

You will be done.........when you are satisfied with the cast boolits you are making. And they shoot to your satifaction. And your barrels don’t lead. Zn or not........you can still make good boolits with a little contamination! Their weight could be a tad lighter, but just adjust for that and you will be fine.

Happy casting!

Bangerjim

[Tripplebeards]

At least you figured it out. I bought some non marked items what I thought was pewter lasted year melted them with my torch and casted them into little squares. I dropped them into my pot with premelted lead. After a minute I fluxed and mixed the pot. I could feel hard chunks in the bottom. After fishing the hard chunks out I found a couple silver looking Swiss cheese blobs. I would assume it was zinc mixed with my pewter. I got lucky and never had a casting issue with that batch. I almost remembered they were picture frames with some kind of plating. I quickly learned that if its not marked pewter I don't buy it anymore.

[Traffer]

At least you figured it out. I bought some non marked items what I thought was pewter lasted year melted them with my torch and casted them into little squares. I dropped them into my pot with premelted lead. After a minute I fluxed and mixed the pot. I could feel hard chunks in the bottom. After fishing the hard chunks out I found a couple silver looking Swiss cheese blobs. I would assume it was zinc mixed with my pewter. I got lucky and never had a casting issue with that batch. I almost remembered they were picture frames with some kind of plating. I quickly learned that if its not marked pewter I don't buy it anymore.

I may not be doing this correctly but...my go to test is a butane lighter. If it melts after holding under a lighter for a minute or so. It's pretty much got to be pewter. Tin melts at a ridiculously low temp. Considerably lower than even lead. So if it melts with butane lighter, it goes in the mix as tin.

[William Yanda]

Dilution is the solution to pollution. Add your troublesome alloy to straight lead in proportions that are manageable.

[Neverhome]

Dilution is the solution to pollution. Add your troublesome alloy to straight lead in proportions that are manageable.

I remember first hearing a variation of that phrase years ago when I worked at a pool. The boss used it. I can't remember why he said it anymore but it seems like a sketchy thing to say at a pool!
And yes since I couldn't with any degree of confidence get all the zinc or whatever out there are only 2 options. Well 3 really. Use it and deal with the difficult casting. Trash it or set it aside indefinitely. Or dilute it down. No big deal if I trashed it as it really wasn't a large batch anymore. I think I'll just set it aside for tough times. Labelled of course