Some folks claim they can anneal 3D printed parts. You might need some way to brace your parts to keep the heat from deforming them. Read the comments in the following videos for additional tips...
Tutorial: Annealing MakerGeeks Raptor PLA - The Boil Method - 3D Printing
Annealing PLA in Place
What's the temperature resistance of annealed PLA, PETG and ABS?
That's interesting. I didn't know such a thing was possible but, for the applications I've been using ABS filament for it's difficult to imaging how it would be useful in my case. Since this "Annealing" process tends to alter the original dimensions it might work for me if I printed everything just a bit bigger all around to its' general shape and then machined it down to the specified dimensions but, my reason for buying the 3D printer was to minimize the use of my milling machine and hopefully use whatever I printed directly out of the printer with a minimum of post-printing work to get it to the finished state.
It's good to learn about this though since I never know when such an annealing might come in handy on some future project. Thanks.
HollowPoint
I finally got the Carbon-Fiber 3D Print filament I ordered off of Ebay about a month ago. Now I have to figure out the correct temperature settings to get it to print the way I want it to. These filaments generally come with recommended temperature ranges but again, it's like working up loads for a specific gun. The recommended temperature settings were based on the 3D Printers that the makers of this filament used when they were testing for optimum prints with this specific filament.
It will be a few days till I get a little more free time to play around with this new filament. It's just a small sample roll so I can't afford to do alot of testing to come up with a good recipe otherwise I'll run out of filament. In the mean time my dedicated K31 Peep Sight is moving right along. I got the base and the upper arm modeled ok but I still need to work on the Windage and Elevation Knobs, the diopter peep thingy and the side plate that holds the upper arm in place. I'm hoping to print it all out of Carbon Fiber as well.
I've mentioned these projects in other forums I'm a member of and it never fails. There are always those who seem to feel it's their calling in life to point out all the reasons why my projects will fail. I got this with my extended magazine project and now I've gotten the same negative responses with my K31 Peep Sights project. I've mentioned this before in other project posts. "I wonder how many useful and even ground breaking inventions have been stifled into oblivion by all of the well-meaning and not-so-well meaning self-appointed internet experts that inventors and DIY'ers have had to deal with in life?
I'll post some pics of the finished Carbon Fiber project once I've gotten them printed up. If all works out as I'm hoping it will I'm thinking about threading the little peep-tower with the same thread pitch that's used by some of the European magnified diopter makers. I spotted one of these on Ebay that wasn't to expensive and I'd kind of like to try one out. My eye sight isn't getting any better so I either need a scope or a good set of Peep-Sights in order to be able to shoot anywhere near accurate.
HollowPoint
Looking forwards to hear your resultsI fall more on the "enabler" side, sorry LOL
I'm sorry if I sounded like I was accusing anyone here of being a "Self-Appointed-Know-It-All." Generally speaking the castboolits forum is one of the most idea-friendly internet sites I've ever come across. I think this is in large part because this site is based alot on self-sufficiency.Originally Posted by Mr_Sheesh
Looking forwards to hear your results
Those from other forums who seem to be basing their opinions or arguments for the failure of my projects are basing their comments on principles and conclusions established and kept inside the proverbial box of accepted norms or knowledge. This can make it difficult to defend your inventions or ideas in the face of such opposition so, I just let them state their cases and keep doing what I'm doing. In the case of my 3D printed extended magazine, I still have one guy insisting that it will not work; even after I posted my short video proving that it does work.
Any time your ideas are derived from experiments and tests that fall outside that proverbial box, you open yourself up to ridicule from the "Self-Appointed Internet Experts." I guess that's normal.
HollowPoint
Last edited by HollowPoint; 07-19-2018 at 05:02 PM.
I just am plain and simple a curious beastie, I like new stuff and seeing what new things can be come up with; I have 2 3d printers but some problems here are keeping me from getting them working. I'll get them going some day, soon as I can.
Another seven hour print, this time in Carbon Fiber and the finished results was a very good surface finish but from feel alone it would seem that the Carbon Fiber Magazine body is actually not any more inflexible than the ABS magazine body.
I did go ahead and make some slight geometry changes to the feed-lips of the magazine. Because of the outward flex on the wall of the mag-body I added a little more material to the inside edge of the magazine lips to counter the outward flex. My 3D printed Carbon Fiber Extended magazine will now hold 12 rounds without those rounds wanting to escape the magazine under the pressure of the mag-spring.
For range testing I'll have to take both the Carbon-Fiber prototype and the ABS Mag Body with me just in case one fails the recoil test. I'll be able to switch from one to the other in that case. I'm confident that both will work just as I'd hoped.
I still haven't taken any photos of the finished Carbon Fiber magazine. I'm wanting to wait till I get my K31 Peep Sights finished so I can kill two birds with one picture taking session. The one down side to working with Carbon Fiber that I've found with my particular printer (Flashforge Creator Pro) is that the resolution is not quite good enough to print out very small parts cleanly. The Windage and Elevation Knobs and the Peep Tower as well as the Diopter will print out but in each case I have to go in and smooth out the surfaces of these smaller components. That's not the case with slightly larger components. If I do my part in the drawing up of the models and finding the right print recipe, my larger printed parts are now coming out pretty good.
I'll be back when I get those pics taken.
HollowPoint
Good work. Take it to the range and lets hear what happens
"Speak softly and carry a big stick; you will go far."
~Theodore Roosevelt~
Great thread
Very interesting
In the mean time here are some of my CAD Renderings of the K31 Swiss Reciever Mounted Peep Sight I've been working on for my K31 rifle. I've actually already printed out a prototype set of this Peep Sight design and everything appears to be fitting together quite well but, like the Carbon Fiber Magazine Body, I still have to get to the range to test them to see how well they're going to hold up against the recoil of full power loads.
The actual printed prototype parts are all a dull black color. I've enhanced the color of these computer renderings in order to be able to make out some of the detail that tends to get hidden whenever I post all black colored projects. I hope to have the photos of my Carbon-Fiber Magazine ready for posting tomorrow. I just didn't have enough free time today.
I had one more image to upload but it seems that I've run out of allotted photo space again. I'll have to go it and delete some of my previous images in order to make room for those other photos I want to upload.
HollowPoint
i need to get me a printer. I could use a few set a peeps and there are a lot of tools i need to make.
"Speak softly and carry a big stick; you will go far."
~Theodore Roosevelt~
I think I've owned this printer a little over a couple of months now so my CNC hobby mill has sat idle for that long. I used to do my prototyping with my Tormach 770 mill but now, even though these prints take a long time to get done, it's still a bit more convenient to make up my prototypes via 3D printing and if I see they are worth setting up my CNC Mill to make them out of metal I can go ahead and do that.
With my metal working machines, I'd have to plan weeks, days or months in advance so I could dedicate that time specifically to tending my machines as they ran. With this 3D printer, I can start my prints when I get out of bed, go to work at my income producing job and let the printer run all day by itself if need be. Since I work out of my home I can check in on those print jobs a couple of times a day just to make sure the prints haven't gone south on me.
HollowPoint
OOps; I posted a duplicate reply. Scratch this one.
I have very limited experience with 3D printing but so far I am not impressed.
There are 3D printers of varying quality and resolution so that is a factor in the final product. The one I was using is owned by a research/development outfit trying to stimulate local business using government grants and investment from industry. I would have figured the 3D printer was of quite high quality but it turns out the final result was rather poor with regards to surface finish and resolution (overall dimensional accuracy). Also, the layers of plastic did not bond well so any significant loading on parts resulted in separation of layers.
The items printed are pretty beefy parts for a a barrel cam type mechanism to rotate a valve plug for molten metal pouring. Lots of material in all parts so no thin sections. From the discussion with the manager of the outfit I'd have figured the parts would be solid like they were cast. Nope! There were several separations at assembly that had to be glued back together. In the end the prototype worked but it certainly wasn't very "solid".
The filament used was ABS.
The 3D printer used was quite large and sophisticated but the result was less than impressive.
I don't know enough about the printers with regards to best material or settings or quality differences between printers but the manager did the printing for me so this poor result is not due to inexperience, it will be due to: quality of the 3D printer, material selection, and/or settings along with the others.
An inexpensive 3D printer and cheap filament will be fine for proving concepts but you will need a "solid" end product that can take some abuse for gun parts and this particular printer did not produce something that would take any abuse.
Longbow
With my first attempts at printing with my particular printer I had similar results as you've described. I had to do alot of experimenting with the print settings to get where I'm at now. I found that the suggested settings offered by the manufacturer of my 3D printer or the manufacturer of the filament I used was basically useless. It did offer a starting point but, again, I use the reloading ammo analogy. The recommended bullet, powder, primer or charge weights one gets as a "Pet-Load" most likely worked great in the gun that a given "Pet-Load" was worked up for but it's not likely it will work the same in anyone else's gun. The same holds true of the suggested print recipes offered by these printer or filament manufactures.
Initially I could snap my parts in half if I used enough hand pressure to do so. I too had separation of layers at first but I had to make a concerted effort to get them to break apart. Given enough force, I think I could even get my latest printed parts to break apart. The thing I'm trying to achieve is printing parts that hold together for the long run when subjected to typical forces they will be subject to serving as the part they are serving. With my Peep Sights and my Magazine prints I haven't deliberately tried to break them.
I'm happy just to get them to a useable state right out of the printer.
HollowPoint
Okay, you've been there already.
3D printing has some amazing capabilities to to produce parts difficult or impossible to produce other ways but like any other method of manufacture the process has to be sorted out to get the required end product quality.
We went with 3D printing to get the prototype model made up for demonstration purposes because it was much cheaper than getting the parts CNC machined. Of course the plastic valve turner cannot be used with molten metal, it was simply to demonstrate function which it did.
One of the posters on the Casting For Shotguns forum is 3D printing skirts for slugs and has had some good results. Skirts are in compression but still have to be pretty sound. Not sure of his material and printer but it is working for him.
It is interesting stuff and I am sure that printers will speed up and final product get better until it is equivalent (or better?) than injection moulded.
I'll be watching to see how all this goes. Good luck and keep forging ahead!
Longbow
I think it's pretty impressive the things you are doing. Your write up and pics helped me to follow along and see what it is you're doing. I don't have the patience to do 1/2 of what you are doing. I'm going to follow the thread as I find it very interesting.
Thanks for the encouragement you guys. I'm afraid when I post stuff like these projects it tends to highlight only the successful parts of the project stages. With the extended magazine project I've printed four different iterations already. The last ABS Mag-Body has been the best so far. The Carbon Fiber was just an after-thought, as I suspected that the qualities of the carbon fiber filament might be a little more robust and hold up better with less flex.
That did turn out to be the case but there is also the issue of Carbon Fiber being more brittle as well; at least for this application where the walls of my Mag-Bodies are pretty thin. I was really happy to see that when I loaded that Carbon Fiber magazine with a full compliment of loaded rounds it was able to hold them all inside the mag but that happiness was short lived this morning when the Feed-Lip on the left side of the magazine just snapped clean off under the pressure.
Since the left side had snapped off I thought I might as well try to snap the right side Feed-Lip off as well just to see how much pressure was needed to break it. I tried to get it to break off too but it wouldn't break. I'm sure I could have succeeded if I'd applied more pressure but the point was to see if just the amount of pressure that the fully loaded spring imparted would break the right side as well.
Bottom line is; it looks like I'll be using ABS for this application instead of Carbon Fiber filament. Additionally, in my print settings I'll have to set the part to be printed so that the "Grain" of the print runs in opposition to the forces of the spring. In a similar way that the grain in a thin wooden plank is easily snapped in half if pressure is applied in conjunction with the grain as opposed to applying that pressure at a right angle to the grain, the way the molten filament is laid down leaves my printed parts with the same strengths and weaknesses. This is another rookie mistake learned the hard way. It's the kind of stuff that's mostly not seen when I post these projects cause there's just not enough time for me to list every little detail. On top of that is the dissolution that listing any or all hardships that the learning curve tends to instill for those who may be interested in trying these things out for themselves.
HollowPoint
Last edited by HollowPoint; 07-30-2018 at 04:03 PM.
I know a little about 3d printing, been around some people who know it well. When you say it's the settings, that's where you are SPOT ON. With the wrong settings, you can get horrid results that aren't correct dimensionally, that won't hold together, etc. etc.; With the settings right, you can get far faster speed of printing and far better results, even finer grain in the finished part (though THAT comes at cost of speed - The finer your layers, the slower the print.)
If you're going to do production I'd look for a local model train club that has an injection molding shop that works with them (they tend to need lots of small production runs for train setups.)
And acetone "vapor treatment" can be great for making better print final results, especially in ABS (PLA can be treated as well, but the vapors needed are NASTY stuff, toxic as heck etc.)
I did all the slight modifications in the geometry of my Magazine CAD models last night and then I set it up in my Slicer software again. This time I laid it sideways instead of standing straight up and down standing on its' base as before.
This orientation will mean that when the molten filament is being laid down layer on top of layer, the "Grain" of the ABS will be vertically as opposed to horizontally the way my previous prints were done.
This does come at a cost though. With my previous prints it required some support structures to be printed in order to support the Feed-Lips as the printing process reached the very top of the print where the Feed-Lips were located. This was just two columns of supports. Now, since I'm printing this same mag-body in a sideways orientation it will require a whole lot more support structures. I should have saved a screen-shot of the supports so that I make a little more sense for those who aren't familiar with this process.
These support structures literally fill the inside of the magazine in order to support the roof of the print in its' sideways orientation. Not only does this mean a much longer print time but it also means that I will most likely loose the excellent surface finish I was getting before when I was printing the Mag-Body standing on its' base. This is because each one of these little supports leaves a tell-tale mark on the surface that its' supporting. They can be sanded smooth, which I'll have to do to get the follower to slide up and down smoothly but, the slightly good thing about it is that most of these imperfections won't be visible cause they are on the inside surfaces of the print.
On the outside surfaces of the print there will be supports holding up the curved surfaces at the corners of the print and at the very thin section at the back of the Mag-Body where it transitions from the thicker lower half of the magazine to the thinner upper half. I added just a hair more material to thicken the lips a bit. This in conjunction with the change in the "Grain" of the ABS as it's being laid down should give me the maximum strength I'm looking for.
The real down side to this is the fact that before, in its' original orientation, this was a seven hour print. Now, in its' sideways print orientation it's become a ten-plus hour print. Wish me luck.
HollowPoint
Posting Permissions
| BP | Bronze Point | IMR | Improved Military Rifle | PTD | Pointed |
| BR | Bench Rest | M | Magnum | RN | Round Nose |
| BT | Boat Tail | PL | Power-Lokt | SP | Soft Point |
| C | Compressed Charge | PR | Primer | SPCL | Soft Point "Core-Lokt" |
| HP | Hollow Point | PSPCL | Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" | C.O.L. | Cartridge Overall Length |
| PSP | Pointed Soft Point | Spz | Spitzer Point | SBT | Spitzer Boat Tail |
| LRN | Lead Round Nose | LWC | Lead Wad Cutter | LSWC | Lead Semi Wad Cutter |
| GC | Gas Check |
Reply With Quote