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Thread: Paper patch height

  1. #21
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    randy's principles and basics are spot on for a beginner. his superb personal drawings are crystal clear. i've email corresponded with randy a fair amount, he knows his stuff. his approach to PPB cartridges is simplistic but is specific to using a grease cookie, which is prolly best for hunters, but one can simply forgo the cookie and just use a wad to make it both simpler and more realistic for the competitor (he has a page at the back of his book that briefly covers a wad-only PPB cartridge). he also doesn't talk about PPB lead alloy, but for starters most are using either 1:20 or 1:16 (the harder is typically most preferred). the concept of the book is familiarity, no more or less, and being able to build a good PPB cartridge for basic good accuracy. there is Much to understand and learn about PPB cartridges, and most of us have devised our own processes, methods, tools, and components that deviate either a little or a lot from randy's bible. i've not found a better PPB starter book than randy's.

  2. #22
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    ...laying on my nightstand.
    R

  3. #23
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    Managed to cast up some boolits late this afternoon in the shade. Cast about fifty and thirty came out 525.7 gns. plus or minus .2 tenths of a grain, so I’m pretty happy about that. These are out of a BACO mold #443530. Their roundness surprised me, just above the base one bullet miked a diameter of .44275” low to .44280” hi. They are all this close, great for a production mold. 1:16 alloy dipper poured, casting temp was 815F.
    The booty,
    Click image for larger version. 

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  4. #24
    Boolit Grand Master Don McDowell's Avatar
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    Looking pretty good. I've found that if you cast about 8-10 bullets when you think the mould and alloy is ready and just dump those first bullets back to the sprue pile, you're cull rate goes way down with those BACO moulds.
    Long range rules, the rest drool.

  5. #25
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    That’s just how it worked out for me Don. The mold was preheated on top of 5he furnace and about eight bullet were wrinkled and dumped back. I’m trying to get a good rhythm, it has been ages since I cast last...

  6. #26
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    what don says is true.when you think bullets look perfect, cast 10 or so and chuck them out.
    then the cull % will drop.
    those 10 will usually be lighter.
    once you get used to it the pain goes away.
    keep safe,
    bruce.

  7. #27
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    The height of the paper wrapped on the bullet is a none issue when the alloy hardness is 1/16 or harder as long as the patch thickness is as deep as the grooves and the alloy holds the ogive from setting back to the point where the bare lead comes into contact with the bore. If the alloy is of proper hardness and the patch is thick enough so the land edge does not cut into the shank to deep the patch will work just fine behind the ogive. I use a alloy that has a little antimony or bismuth for holding setback that is almost none excitant but lets the shank fully fill the groove so there is no chance for the gases to seep past the bullet to change the chamber pressure that creates vertical and poor full rotation of the bullet.
    I put a very small dimple at the point where the shank meets the ogive and this is where I hold the patch so I have consistency in the amount of friction the bullet forces on the bore.
    As far as wet patching or dry patching, I gave up wet patching a long time ago because I found patch remnants stuck to the wood target backers 200 yards down range as well as wads as far as 150 yards or so down range this tells me that the patches stay on longer down range and the wads would not draft behind this far if the patch strips off completely.

    Attachment 223057

  8. #28
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    i'm a convert from 1:20 to 1:16 alloy, and that does make patching the slick less critical and for better bullets.

    i use a jig to lay down a lead pencil mark at the optimum point for the patch wrap, then wrap the slick "in the air".

    overall, for target shooters, dry patching is just the way to go - too many issues with wet.

  9. #29
    Boolit Grand Master Don McDowell's Avatar
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    I know of several shooters that wrap wet and do very well.
    Long range rules, the rest drool.

  10. #30
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    ... and there are some special folks who can drink a full fifth of fine irish whisky in one sitting and walk a straight line thereafter.

  11. #31
    Boolit Grand Master Don McDowell's Avatar
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    At the Creedmoor cup match at Lodi last month 4rd and 5th place was determined by x count. 5th place shooter wet wrap's his bullets, which look something more like a flying john boat than what some would find optimal for long range shooting. I don't know if the forth place shooter had any oopsydo's in his string but the 5th place shooter got all out of focus on the last string at 900 and pulled the front trigger instead of the set trigger, resulting in a miss, and then pulled a crossfire at 800, without those two goober shots, the way the prizes got awarded may have looked a bunch different.
    Also at Lodi a shooter had a bunch of bad bullets, and was looking at the reality of having to go home due to the lack of good ammo. Another shooter came up with the idea of pulling his greasers and replacing them with wet patched bullets pulled from excess rounds he had brought along. Keep the story short the shooter that received the donated bullets shot the best 1000 yard score's he had ever fired.
    Long range rules, the rest drool.

  12. #32
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    Thanks guys...I have been practicing dry wrapping and so far seems to be relatively easy. I would imagine that different papers react differently to wet patching.If I get up the courage, I may shoot a few rounds into the pool but somewhat leery of shooting a hole in the bottom of the pool. I’d catch the dickens from the wife, lol.
    Regards, Richard

  13. #33
    Boolit Bub
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    Don do you use the wet or dry method ?








  14. #34
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    Another satisfied reader. Great book for the beginner and experienced paper patcher alike.

  15. #35
    Boolit Grand Master Don McDowell's Avatar
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    Keith I wet wrap all my match loads. Occasionally I'll dry wrap some when load testing. I wet the patch by laying it briefly on a wet sponge, then move it over to a rubber patching block, place the bullet on the patch and then simply roll the patch and bullet together, fold/roll the paper over the base, and then either set it on a candle heater, or put them in a bullet block to dry.
    Wet wrapping as we were told by the Ideal reloading manual in the 1880's removes the sizing from the paper. It also makes the paper more of a "jacket" making the patched bullet less fragile. It seems that instead of "confetti" strips you get more of a paper dust cloud when the bullet exits the barrel.
    Long range rules, the rest drool.

  16. #36
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    If you watch the paper when laid on the damp / wet sponge. you will see it curl and then slowly uncurl. This indicates some of the "set" in the paper is being removed also. Damp patching ma require a slightly shorted patch length due to added stretch..

    A sponge in a shallow bowl filled with water 1/2 to 3/4 up the sponge works well for me. I set 4-5 patches on it and wrap a bullet replace patch and use next patch in line working thru till all the bullets are wrapped, this gives the patches the same "soak time" on the sponge and time to curl uncurl and normalize.

  17. #37
    Boolit Bub
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    If you used wet patched at Lodi I think I would try the dry patched. It looked like you had some problems. Might be worth a try.








  18. #38
    Boolit Grand Master Don McDowell's Avatar
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    Sure did have some problems at Lodi especially at 1000. Part of it is something going on with my right eye leaving me a blank spot making it hard to see the targets, part of it was rifle problems with the firing pin hole in the breechblock getting worn and trapping the firing pin in the fired position. Shiloh sent me the replacemtent breechblock last night. Another thing that affected the scores a bit, this heavy gun is hell on the cross sticks due to weight of the barrel, the grass roots on the firing line berms made it pretty tough to get the sticks in deep enough to hold the same position, but I've got a plan to account for that problem next year, if they have the match next year.
    Funny thing tho you didn't mention anything about me having the second high x count at the Wyoming state match the month before.. and you might take a closer look at Eddie Haye's Lodi scores...
    Also did you shoot the Lodi match under a different name than you use here?
    Long range rules, the rest drool.

  19. #39
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    i wet patch and dry patch, but mostly wet.
    wet patches do indeed need to be cut shorter to allow for stretch.
    wet patched bullets add less thickness to a bullet than dry, offering versatility in bullet diameter choice for fit to the bore.
    my wet patched confetti falls about 1 meter in front of the muzzle in no wind, and is strips.
    for some reason,bullets breech seated with an airgap do not cut the paper in such a defined way as on the over powder wad in fixed ammo.
    long range shooting has many things affecting results, including wind, mirage moving the image of the target, and other.
    you don't have to make many wrong wind calls to not win, and wind calling ability can vary from day to day.
    big changes on the windage adjustment will require commensurate elevation changes.
    things have to be just right to look good.
    everyone that shoots long range will have problems.
    you have to study a lot of long range results to get a true gauge of how you are going..leave out the best ones and the worst ones maybe.
    keep safe,
    bruce.

  20. #40
    Boolit Grand Master Don McDowell's Avatar
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    Well said Bruce.
    One thing that was pointed out to me after the Lodi scores were published, one of the top shooters in the country said "looks like you did well " I replied well it didn't really feel well. He replied back that's an expert score.. Did the math and yup it sure was,, was also enough consecutive shots that if the NRA bean counters are on the stick, I'm going from Marksman right to Expert, and they not only sent me one new classification card in midrange prone they sent me a second one , I suppose they wanted to be sure I knew of that Expert classification .. Did that transitioning from grease groove to dry patched to wet patched...
    Long range rules, the rest drool.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check