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Thread: Would you use this Lead alloy for boolits?

  1. #1
    Boolit Master
    JBinMN's Avatar
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    Would you use this Lead alloy for boolits?

    I was picking up lead from a source last Thursday & while going through the lead bin & found 2 & 1/2 of these "pig ingots" in the bin. They have the ends that are similar to linotype pig ingots, but these had them on both ends. So I was a bit unsure of their content. So, I broke off one of the tangs off of two of them & paid for them along with the other 300+ pounds of pure lead I purchased & brought them home to melt the pieces down to see how hard they were. The broken bits had the look of linotype & they broke off similarly leaving that course grain. I told the source that I was interested in them, but wanted to research & try to test the hardness before buying them.

    After melting, pouring into ingot form ( lee mold) & cooling it, I tested it with my Lee BHN tester.
    It came out to about .046" dimple, which converts to approx. 24 BHN. Close to linotype hardness & I was a bit enthused about it, but still could not seem to find an image of linotype with both ends having that "clevis"-type shape.

    Well, I thought it over & decided to go back Monday to see about buying them, thinking that since they were pretty close to Linotype, perhaps they were of similar composition. I wanted to pick up some more lead anyway & so it would not be a wasted trip. Later on after buying them, I would see if someone around here had an XRF to tell me the alloy composition to verify it before using it.

    My luck was good in that on Friday, a "rep" from one of the scrap buyers had stopped in & the owner/source borrowed the reps portable XRF ( The owner said it reminded him of a "Phazer" from Star Trek) and he scanned the pig ingots to see what they were as he was not going to be able to include them in the lead if they were not of the right composition.

    To his amazement ( And mine that day), the XRF said the composition of those pig ingots was the following:

    AL (Aluminum) 1.8%
    SI (Silicon) 3.3%
    P ( Phosphorus) 0.12%
    Fe (Iron) 0.26%
    Sn (Tin) 0.09%
    Sb (Antimony) 16.4%
    PB ( Lead) 68.93%

    91.98% Total...

    [ They don't add up to 100% & that concerns, as well as confuses me... ]

    BTW, The source told me that he thought the list above was very similar to the alloy used for making batteries & perhaps this is an ingot from the manufacturer of battery lead sheets for inside the batteries.

    Here are some pics of the pig ingots & the actual list I was provided:

    Pig ingot & list
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    List closer up
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    If you can see it, there is writing stamped into the pig ingot.
    "THIS INGOT IS NOT TO BE SOLD MOLD NO1" is what I think it says from the pic
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    A look at the "clevis type" end of the pig ingot. Note that BOTH ends of the pig ingot have this "clevis".
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    So, the biggest concern I have is in the Red above in the list. The FE/Iron is very minor at 0.26% almost to not be a worry I would think.
    The Si/Silicon, which I understand is abrasive, is at 3.3% of the whole. That is of more concern to me as I do not think having an abrasive of any kind or amount running down any firearms bore to be a good thing..

    I am also a little bit concerned about the lack of tin & higher amount of antimony as well as the reduction in the amount of lead as compared to a Linotype alloy.

    Lastly, since the amounts don't add up to 100%, what might be any other components of the alloy, or what parts of the components of the ally are possibly written down incorrectly.
    The source is the one who wrote them down, and I do not know if he may have written any down incorrectly, or if any were missed & not included in the list... another "Hmmm".

    I can only see a few options for me right now:

    *Buy it & have it tested again by someone else to check the composition to decide to use it or not. Which will be an expense & if it turns out that it is more of the Si/Silicon and/or the Fe/Iron than is acceptable, I am out the $$ for the pig ingots as well as the cost of the test.

    *Buy it & use it as it seems to be, since it is going to be further reduced by my adding close to pure lead to it to make an alloy for boolits.

    *Not buy it & just forget about it.


    Maybe you folks can help me out on any other options.
    So, I have decided to ask here for advice & trust the membership to help out in determining if it is a worthwhile buy or not.

    Please share your related thoughts, advice, or further info on these pig ingots, & about whether I should buy them. The input will be very appreciated.

    Thanks if you can help me out!


    JB
    2nd Amend./U.S. Const. - "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

    ~~ WWG1WGA ~~

    Restore the Republic!!!

    For the Fudds > "Those who appease a tiger, do so in the hope that the tiger will eat them last." -Winston Churchill.

    President Reagan tells it like it is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6MwPgPK7WQ

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  2. #2
    Boolit Buddy pete501's Avatar
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    That is a linotype pig. I have had samples tested and showed similar results. I asked the tester and he said the gun picks up contaminants on the surface. I would use it as you would use linotype. The contaminants are in small percentage, if you are concerned, you could scrub off the pig.

  3. #3
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    having been against a bit of rust will lead to the Fe, and sand grit or lubricant will give the Si which I would not worry about since the sand floats and gets skimmed off as dross, and lubricant burns off.

    The percentages of contamination might mask some percentage of tin and linotype was recycled many times. Tin is the metal that tends to end up as oxidized dross coming out of the melt in this process. You might have some tin depletion in addition to percentages skewed by the surface contamination.
    Scrap.... because all the really pithy and emphatic four letter words were taken and we had to describe this source of casting material somehow so we added an "S" to what non casters and wives call what we collect.

    Kind of hard to claim to love America while one is hating half the Americans that disagree with you. One nation indivisible requires work.

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  4. #4
    Boolit Bub Dunkem's Avatar
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    Took me a minute to remember where I've seen ingots like that. They were mentioned in a video by FortuneCookie45LC a few years back. In the video he says with a high degree of certainty that they are in fact linotype. They look very similar, if not identical to the ones in question. Hopefully Mr. FortuneCookie doesn't mind me borrowing a few screen shots. Here is a link to the video as well. Skip to 6:10 to see the ingots. https://youtu.be/GdqQ7062KA0

    Sent from my VS990 using Tapatalk

  5. #5
    Boolit Master

    Rcmaveric's Avatar
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    I would love to get my hands on it.

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    "Speak softly and carry a big stick; you will go far."
    ~Theodore Roosevelt~

  6. #6
    Boolit Master
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    Thanks to all who have posted so far for the input, recommendations & advice!


    The video images & after I watched the video as well, that were posted here was a pretty good indicator that the ones I have been looking at are likely a form of linotype &, additionally , with other posts, the XRF info may have been a bit skewed by contaminants & perhaps at the transferring the recording of the XRF alloy components amounts to paper, that they may have got a bit mixed up.

    I think I will be going up there later today or tomorrow to pick up some WWs and I will likely go ahead & get these 2-1/2 ingots while I am there, "if" they are still there.

    If by chance anyone else has some info on these, I will be checking back later until the time I go to pick them up. Unless of course, someone has some idea why they should not be used...


    Thanks again for the helpful, as well as the optimistic responses!

    2nd Amend./U.S. Const. - "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

    ~~ WWG1WGA ~~

    Restore the Republic!!!

    For the Fudds > "Those who appease a tiger, do so in the hope that the tiger will eat them last." -Winston Churchill.

    President Reagan tells it like it is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6MwPgPK7WQ

    Phil Robertson explains the Wall: https://youtu.be/f9d1Wof7S4o

  7. #7
    Boolit Master


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    If you decide to use them, it appears that you need not be concerned about Cadmium or other heavy metal contamination. That would be a major concern of battery lead.
    Micah 6:8
    He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?

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  8. #8
    Boolit Master redhawk0's Avatar
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    I'd buy them...melt them down, clean and pour into fresh ingots. You could then have it tested again if you are that concerned...but likely its just surface contamination on Linotype. Any silica (sand) will float and be removed with the dross. I say shoot it once cleaned and don't worry about it.

    BTW...great find.

    redhawk

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    Not all who wander....are lost.
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  9. #9
    Boolit Master
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    Well , early this afternoon I went ahead & bought these 3- 1/3 pig ingots, along with some WWs & some other lead. I found a couple more pig ingots after I dug thru the "tote" the "mixed" lead was in, since the ones I saw before had been scrounged byu someone else, I think...


    Here is a pic of the 3 and 1/3rd pig ingots I bought :
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    There were another 1 & 1/2 pig ingots that were gone that I looked at & were different than the ones I bought today, since when I was there earlier the ones I had in my hand were on the top of the pile in the bin, but they were gone already when I got there today. {I am not the only one who uses this source...} I had to dig around a bit to find some more that were buried under other stuff...

    I was happy to get what I did.

    Anyway, I bought about 550-600 lbs of mixed lead this past 10 days to add to the pile I already have, plus the linotype style pig ingots, as well as some WWs & range scrap. Pretty much done with lead buying until maybe the Fall, as I am out of $$ for that part of our hobby of casting/reloading [ handloading].

    Next is the smelting down & removing dross, then ingot casting into the small ingots in the next week or so, if the rain stops a bit & the heat stays away...

    Gonna be busy. And I still have fishin', some camping & spending time with the family & in particular the grandboys too.



    Thanks to all that helped me out here. VERY much appreciated! More than ya likely realize.




    JB
    2nd Amend./U.S. Const. - "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

    ~~ WWG1WGA ~~

    Restore the Republic!!!

    For the Fudds > "Those who appease a tiger, do so in the hope that the tiger will eat them last." -Winston Churchill.

    President Reagan tells it like it is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6MwPgPK7WQ

    Phil Robertson explains the Wall: https://youtu.be/f9d1Wof7S4o

  10. #10
    Boolit Master

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    Congrats. I need to raid the piggy bank and make a scrap yard run.

    Sent from my SM-G925T using Tapatalk
    "Speak softly and carry a big stick; you will go far."
    ~Theodore Roosevelt~

  11. #11
    Boolit Grand Master

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    I just wish the scrap yards around here would sell to the public.

  12. #12
    Boolit Buddy
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    The one near my house does. Looks like he sells to just two guys, me and somebody that does fishing weights for sale. Looks like half the time I'm "dang it, the other dude was here already!" And the other half is his turn to say "dang it, the other dude was here already!"

    Speaking of which I should stop by tomorrow

  13. #13
    Boolit Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by lightman View Post
    I just wish the scrap yards around here would sell to the public.
    Go to google maps and type in scrap yards. When it displays the results just call them down the list.
    "Speak softly and carry a big stick; you will go far."
    ~Theodore Roosevelt~

  14. #14
    Boolit Master

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    When we had oil samples tested by Caterpiller and they came back with silicon they said it was contaminated with dirt....dale

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check