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Thread: Opioid/heroin crisis?

  1. #61
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    Like Mary, my neck and back are screwed up bad. Work finally forced me out after a fall at work and now on disability retirement. I took the multiple pills a day but had issues with the spiking and falling pain levels; not to mention high blood pressure. I went on the 24/7 one pill a day. I am in slightly more pain but it is more evened out now. Blood pressure basically normal now. Like Mary said, you have to move around and do things. For me the nights are the worst with being up every hour or two from pain and sleeping on the floor half the time. Now some folks say opioids are being abused by others so now I have to jump through hoops and drive round trip 1 1/2 - 2 hours every month when sitting for more than 30 minutes becomes painful to see a pain doc. System is screwed up. Said it before, same argument anti gun folks make.

  2. #62
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    There are many ways to get hooked. I watched my uncle die about 50 years ago from opioid dependency. Never wanted it never will. Refused to take them for the most part in the hospital. I was laying in a bed with a broken back. When I was released I was prescribed enough for 4 a day for 30 days. They lasted me a year. Yes I was in pain but didn't want to become dependent. When I went back to work was asked if I had any for sale. People just want to be screwed up on anything. That includes drugs, sex, alcohol you name it.
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  3. #63
    Boolit Grand Master popper's Avatar
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    I'm not a medical scientist but you need to understand how this stuff works, sugar, opiods, chocolate,coffee, etc - yes all (except sugar - booze) have somewhat similar heavy alkaloid molecules. Those little guys like to find a happy restful spot in your brain to take a nap - which makes your brain take a nap or something else bad. Your body chemistry decides how many nappers it will allow - thus some get 'hooked' on a single dose, others appear to be immune. Narcan & other 'stuff' will find a spot to take a nap but it is shorter so the real snoozers get eliminated. The snoozers cause the brain to work in strange ways.
    It is still up to the individual to take the first step. Worst case I've seen was in the service, go to sick bay for about anything and the corpsman gives you tablets with the blue dot on the side. I've been given 'happy juice' a couple times after minor surgery and I just go to sleep. Ever see a 98yr old wheelchair bound gal try to get out of bed and undress, ready to check herself out of the hospital (and speak stuff you never heard her say) after getting a shot of 'happy juice'? You don't want to pay for the 24/7 'monitor/observer' in the hospital either. Standing orders at the old folks home - she goes to the hospital - absolutely NO pain killers.
    You really want those persons to fix your car/airplane, drive down the road when you are on the road, drive your bus or train?
    Last edited by popper; 06-19-2018 at 10:49 AM.
    Whatever!

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Michel View Post
    It doesn't help, that's my point. My brother, my friends and the other people I've known that has succumbed to drug over doses, made a choice and it cost them in the end. I never said it wasn't tragic and it's certainly a horrible way to die, but not a single one of these people were forced, and if you spend sometime talking to police or emergency medical personal the common consensuses is that if you take it, it will eventually take you. That's why stories of people that have kicked the addiction is so rare. What you don't hear is the stories of these same people dying later from an overdose. You only need to take this once and your hooked. That's why your first "hit" is always a freebie. We had three OD's on a single Saturday not long ago. My town has a population 15,000 people. Yes, it's problem, no question. But the problem of how to solve it it much more difficult. The compassionate side of our being wants to help these people as much as we can even though deep down it's probably fruitless. The realistic side wants to punish the people who deal out this poison to our people but, we don't have the will to be really harsh. Look how the Philippines handle drug runners. They catch them and shoot them and the world raises their collective hands in horror and they says "She's a grandmother" and what they don't say is she is really a person that sells drugs that kill people. That option works probably works the best against repeat offenders but it's not really all that effective. The problem is that people are taking the drugs, when that demand is lessened through attrition then drugs usage will drop proportionately. Cold, yup. but a statistical certainty. You can't cure human nature regardless of the insanity of some of their actions. This will have to run it's course like any other epidemic.
    Jeff I understand your view and I am very sorry for your loss , I wasn't in any way making light of it or being snarky , Believe me I do talk with ems and LE all the time as I have friends in both fields also my girlfriend is a opoid abuse counselor and has been for the last 12 years . I honestly don't know what the cure or solution is for this nation wide epidemic , but I do know people can kick their addiction but it's very very hard in comparison to other drugs like coke . Most people can't do it alone and don't ask for help there's just the drive that their mind is telling them more more more one or two stamp bags a day turn into 20-30 just to get that same high and it snow balls until they OD like I have said I am looking at this through my girlfriends eyes as she tells me stories and explains to me how the opioids affect the body and brain of the user .
    If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck!

  5. #65
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    No apology necessary, it is a will always be a super charged topic. Your girlfriend is correct, it is virtually impossible without outside help. My wife became an EMT after she retired, and even though she can't discuss anything in specifics, general comments adds quite a few disturbing aspects to the heroin problem. The term of "Lazarus parties" where a group of people intentionally overdose, one individual stays lucid so as to administer Narcan to his associates. Or "Frequent Flyers" multiple incidents of overdosing. No person alive knows how this will end or even if it will end. Narcotics has been part of the human experience as long as there have been people and it's also part of the human condition to believe that you personally will not be affected in the same way as everyone else. Sadly, I have come to the conclusion that they are generally good people that make really stupid choices. Perhaps some good will come out of their collective passing, but for me personally, I seemed to of misplaced my compassion along the way and I just can't find it anywhere.
    Last edited by Jeff Michel; 06-19-2018 at 06:37 PM.
    “Let us endeavor so to live that when we come to die even the undertaker will be sorry.”
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  6. #66
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    A bit over a decade ago, was on the percs and the oxys for months at a time. Ruptured disc and torn cartilage in my hip.

    Last trip to the pain management doc, he asked me if I needed a refill. I said "nope, still have 80-something left". He said, "that's not possible". I said, I stopped taking them 3 weeks ago. He said, "you're not in pain anymore?" I said, "Oh yeah, still in pain. Just that, even double dosing the percs/oxys don't do that much for the pain anymore. Plus, they add their own problems to deal with."

    Doc said, "You had to have been addicted to them. How did you get off of them?" I said, "They weren't doing enough for me anymore, so they just weren't worth taking." He asked how I felt when I stopped taking them. I said, "Depressed and had an upset stomach." He said, "That was withdrawal symptoms". Told him, I had those symptoms just before quitting the percs.

    I'll still use the oxys on rare occasions, but only when my hip goes out, my back muscles spasm or I'm trying to pass a kidney stone.

    Can't stand the idea of being controlled by something else or someone else.
    A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms *shall not be infringed*.

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  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by dragon813gt View Post
    It’s your understanding that’s incorrect. The crisis was around well before Obama became President. But no one was paying attention unless it effected them directly. Obama did not cause the opioid epidemic. They news outlets were reporting on the abuses during Bush’s presidency. But nothing was done about it. It came to head under Obama, that’s all.
    Repeating it will not make it true. The socio-economic conditions that Obama’s War on Working Americans brought an opioid abuse problem to crisis levels in the Ohio River Valkey, Appalachia, and the Upper Midwest.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by smokeywolf View Post

    Can't stand the idea of being controlled by something else or someone else.
    Same here. At this very moment, I am in bed fighting some severe post-op pain with only Tylenol to help. Took the Oxys for the first 36 hours, then got off as soon as possible. I never asked and was never offered them pre-op despite near constant pain that peaked out at 8-10 at times. Perhaps a sign of a shift in the medical field. I've never gotten much pleasure out of the pills, but certainly don't want to find out the hard way.

    Watched my dad, who has more dedication than most, struggle with nicotine for years. I won't even smoke an occasional cigar. I do enjoy my evening drink, but dry out from time to time, just to make sure I can.

    My BIL has had pill problems for years which started with recurring kidney stones in his teenage years. He's in med management and I just pray that it's working and he doesn't turn to anything else for his sake, my wife's, and the rest of his family's. Mistakes were almost certainly made along the way by all the parties involved, but the only thing to do now is to pursue recovery.

    Never once, have I or anyone else I know been counciled by a doctor or pharmacist the potential for addiction, warning signs, or steps to take if an opiate addiction is forming. Would it do any good? I don't know, but it'd only cost a few minutes of time to try. Sadly, many of these professionals feel their time is too valuable to actually talk to their patients anymore

    I was certainly young and dumb at a point in my life, but managed, by the grace of God, to survive those years without any major mistakes. No doubt most addictions are self inflicted and dealing with an addict is exhausting and frustrating. I can't fathom the toll on our society. My prayers are for those that are struggling and their families.

  9. #69
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    Silvercreek Farmer, if you're still imbibing regularly or even semi-regularly you should consult with your doctor about switching from Tylenol to ibuprofen.
    A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms *shall not be infringed*.

    "The greatest danger to American freedom is a government that ignores the Constitution."
    - Thomas Jefferson

    "While the people have property, arms in their hands, and only a spark of noble spirit, the most corrupt Congress must be mad to form any project of tyranny."
    - Rev. Nicholas Collin, Fayetteville Gazette (N.C.), October 12, 1789

  10. #70
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    We see it in Illinois! But, I have a wife who was in an accident a few years back and suffered TBI and 21 broken bones. She is tough, but at night she has to have 2 very good pain killers to just sleep. Getting to the point that doctors will not give it to her... And my friends, this is ********! She is not addicted, never has been and has self managed her dose for 11 years. Even though early on she was prescribed 2 every 4 to 6 hours, she never took them. She spent almost a month on 100 down to 25 microgram/hr patches with fentanyl. Addiction can be avoided if there is a will!

  11. #71
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    Been told taking my pills is addictive. Said no matter what I will have to take something for the pain, especially at night. Honestly, what is the difference between taking an opioid vs taking Tylenol or ibuprofen every day? You are still taking something to handle the pain. I am not talking about taking something that makes you high, or loopy.

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by snowwolfe View Post
    Addicts will be addicts. Knoxville news station posted a clip the other day some EMS crews have actually administered Narcan TWICE to the same addict in one day. The EMS crews also mentioned Narcan seems to be losing its effectiveness possibly due to addicts consuming higher amount of drugs with more strength.


    I've heard of this as well. I also have heard when junkies get combative after Narcan administered due to their "high" being ruined.
    You can miss fast & you can miss a lot, but only hits count.

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by EMC45 View Post
    I've heard of this as well. I also have heard when junkies get combative after Narcan administered due to their "high" being ruined.
    Yeah, it can get comical. An old girlfriend works medical intake at the city jail, and says those guys are always so bummed to see her because she makes them sober before they go to their cell for the night.

  14. #74
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    What I can't understand is we are right in the middle of one pharmaceutical induced epidemic...pain killers and our politicians are moving heaven and earth to get "medical mary jane" legalized.
    Why create another drug addiction...after medical it's a short step to recreational and another drug problem.....Mark my words...Ain't Nothing Good Going to come from more addictions.
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  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by gwpercle View Post
    What I can't understand is we are right in the middle of one pharmaceutical induced epidemic...pain killers and our politicians are moving heaven and earth to get "medical mary jane" legalized.
    Why create another drug addiction...after medical it's a short step to recreational and another drug problem.....Mark my words...Ain't Nothing Good Going to come from more addictions.
    Gary
    Every place that has legalized marijuana has seen opiate prescriptions and deaths from overdose drop considerably. People are switching to it for pain relief.

  16. #76
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    Another manager in my company left work a year ago February to find his daughter dead in the parking lot. She'd been clean for a year.
    It's not something I would wish on my worst enemy, but the responsibility rightly falls on the person likely to suffer most.


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  17. #77
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    I disagree, I have been using narcotic pain meds since 2007... mostly self managed minimal dose that lets be get moving for the day. 11 years, no upping the dose(in fact I have been lowering it!)... it depends on the person. Some people have personalities that let them become addicted easily.

  18. #78
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    Have had kidney stones off and on 2 shoulder surgeries hernia and
    Carpal tunnel surgeries was given morphine in the ER for the stones and either percodan or percocet for post surgeries. Was really concerned about getting hooked on the pain meds as several family members have been in and out of rehab for addiction. Didn't take the meds unless really nessicery got by on tylenol. Other than constipation from the meds I wasn't in the kind of pain I was expecting so either the pain level was overstated or I'm tougher than I thought.
    Last edited by DocSavage; 06-21-2018 at 12:05 AM.

  19. #79
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    I've been on Prescription Opioids for 20yrs due to being knocked off a ladder at work. Both my knees were busted and my spine suffered 3 cracked vertebrae and 8 damaged discs.
    I saw lot's of friends in the late '60's when I was in H.S. die of drug overdoses. I became a NAVY Corpsman and worked in a V. A. Hospital after my service. I saw pain meds pushed on vets consistently. I know of many who became hooked and went on to illegal drugs and O'D.
    When I got hurt I learned to control my pain with Physical Therapy, ice packs & heating pads.
    I take very few pills, just 1-2 to dull the sharp edge, and I'll never drive or reload or shoot while I'm on them. I've learned to live with it. So my DR. doesn't worry about me. I watched my DAD live with pain from the time I was young enough to realize it until the day he died.
    Maybe I inherited his resistance to pain or ability to deal with it. Or maybe It's just plain fear from all I've seen.
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  20. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walks View Post
    Or maybe It's just plain fear from all I've seen.
    That's me. Drugs have always scared the living daylights out of me. I grew up as the son of a coroner's deputy, and could discern that drugs contributed frequently and generously to my Dad's client base. The guy that shot me in 1981 did so while burglarizing a closed pharmacy to obtain opiates and barbiturates. I have been blessed (so far) to not live with very much pain very often. I want NO PART of any pain meds not required for genuine severe pain management.

    Humans really like to poison themselves. I will never understand that trait.
    I don't paint bullets. I like Black Rifle Coffee. Sacred cows are always fair game. California is to the United States what Syria is to Russia and North Korea is to China/South Korea/Japan--a Hermit Kingdom detached from the real world and led by delusional maniacs, an economic and social basket case sustained by "foreign" aid so as to not lose military bases.

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