Opioid/heroin crisis?

[Idaho45guy]

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[Idaho45guy]

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[snowwolfe]

No one is being forced to swallow a pill, snort a line, on inject a drug. Same as no one is forced to smoke tobacco, chew tobacco, or drink alcohol. Put the blame where it belongs and that is the person using the stuff.

[Geezer in NH]

Addicts need to OD and die is that plain enough? Saving them just creates more addicts and problems IMHO.

Had them in our family it was better when the expired.

[snowwolfe]

We don’t blame alcohol for DUI’s so why should we blame misuse of opioids for addiction

[redneck1]

I think there is a lot more blame to pass around then on just the junkies in this case .. doctors and drug companies should get at least half the blame .
People tend to trust doctors , call them idiots if you like but it's a bad fact .
Three years ago I broke my arm right under the elbow .
The hospital doped me up pretty good when they set it and sent me home home with a bottle of 10 vicoden to hold me till I could fill my prescription.
The next day when I sobered up and looked at my prescription I seen the er doc had prescribed me 120 pills , 4 a day for 30 days .
When I went to get the script filled I asked if they could cut it back a bit and only give me 10 or 15 more pills ... pharmacy guy imeadiatly says ... no! It's what's on the script or nothing .
I chose nothing , fact is I still a couple of first 10 still in my medicine cabinet .

Point is though ... many people do just as they was taught from a kid
Listen to the doc and finish the prescription.
30 days is 16 days longer then it takes for your body to become addicted to opioids . .. plenty of blame to go around

[bedbugbilly]

For those that aren't aware of it . . . perhaps it's because you are the type who would not do it? I say that as an "old guy" . . but one who has seen a lot in the years I worked ambulance and fire-rescue. People seem to think it's "everywhere but here" . .... pull you head out of the sand, it's everywhere and it doesn't make any difference of your race, age, social standing or whatever. A few months ago, a guy OD'd on heroin in the restroom at the local livestock exchange - DOA.

Talk with a high-schooler . . . if they'll be open and honest about it . . . . it is an epidemic.

I't's not necessarily something that you can "see" . . . but it's there. . . . and I would imagine that many would be surprised to find out just how many people they know that are involved in it.

Maybe I'm just getting old . . . but we have a government - and this includes state governments - that pushed and pushed to overcome the tobacco industry and get people to stop smoking. YET . . . these idiotic states are legalizing marijuana . . . why? Simple. The tax money they will get off of it. It's bad enough the number of idiots out there that drive under the influence of alcohol . . . now they add the problem of more drivers under the influence of a legalized drug?

The amount of drugs being caught at the border is just a fraction of what is crossing . . . and where does the drugs go that make it through? All over the U.S. . . . including YOUR COMMUNITY. It's in your schools and it's among people you know. Most can't fathom the problem based on their lifestyles, morals, beliefs . . . . but there are all sorts of people out there in which it is a daily part of their lives.

At least Trump admits there is a problem and is trying to do something about it . . . a far cry from previous Administrations.

[dragon813gt]

Attachment 222295

The spike can be directly attributed to changing the formulation of OxyContin and the ensuing switch to alternatives. The last couple years have seen lots of deaths related to Fentanyl.

Not everyone is well informed. People trust what the doctor tells them. Not all addicts got hooked because they worked their way up through drugs and landed at heroin. For some people all it takes is one pill and they’re off to the races. The perceived lack of compassion for others by conservatives is on display in this thread. Do I think we should help people who continually go down the same wrong path, no. But I’ve seen how it can grab family members. The right thing to do is try and help them. Not wish they would die so they can be an example to others.

[Traffer]

The problem is there, you just don't see it that much. I was surprised to find out that one of the wives of a guy in our Church group had been off and on heroin addict for the past 10 years. You would never know by talking to them unless you got to know them. She looked normal when she was doing normal stuff.
I believe the the reason that there are is such a big problem with addiction is the same as why there are so many suicides. And for that matter it is the root of just about every societal ill we see. People no longer fear God. Real fear of God is almost unknown in the vast majority of Christian churches nowadays. When I was young in the 50's people were kept away from much of the big harm stuff like addiction and suicide by the knowledge that they would have to stand in judgment for their deeds. There has been a message that had permeated the Christian faith lately that "a loving God wouldn't ever be bad to a person, blah blah blah..." As if God is only compassionate and there are no consequences for sin. Sheep and goats ...sheep and goats. "Depart from me, you evildoers. I never knew you."

[blackthorn]

I have some sympathy for those unfortunate enough to be hooked due to prescription drugs. For those so called "recreational drug users--- none at all! If it were to be one of my family, I would feel bad and cry for my loss at their funeral, but no sympathy. Recreational users go get their drugs off street vendors (pushers), now if I poisoned my city's water supply I would be charged with murder and sentenced accordingly. What happens to pushers?? Not much! The guy leading the Philippians (sp) has the right idea!

[snowwolfe]

Laudanum has been used for at least the last 200 years. For a long time it didn’t require a prescription. Some people abused it but most did not. It is hard for some of you to grasp this but it is not the substance, it’s the person putting it into their body.

[BD]

This actually is a nationwide drug addiction problem that was in fact directly caused by big Pharma working our for profit health care system. Pharma lobbied hard to get expedited approvals for synthetic opioids, pushed them hard and managed to pretty much completely replace the existing severe pain medication regimen, addicting millions of patients in the process. Big Pharma then knowingly flooded the market with the synthetics at volumes far above the amount required to meet the legally prescribed volume in order to feed the addition while actively lobbying to reduce the DEA's ability to investigate and prosecute the legal oversupply of the drugs. Millions of addicted patients came to the end of their prescriptions, (and budgets), and went onto the cheaper, and far more dangerous, street opioids like fentanyl. We are seeing the result. PA congressman Marino bears the majority of the responsibility for continuing this national crisis with his "Insuring patient access" bill that was signed into law by President Obama. This is what we get for staying with our archaic private for profit health insurance industry, while allowing unlimited financial influence on our legislators. And this is why Tom Marino absolutely could not become Trump's "Drug Czar". If you think I'm making up some kind of wacky left wing conspiracy theory, just ask anyone you know who works for the DEA, even a secretary. This is not paranoia, it is the situation we are in. Brought to you by our health care system, and our government.


http://apps.washingtonpost.com/g/pag...ocuments/2248/
http://www.latimes.com/local/califor...nap-story.html
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/10/17...addiction.html

[RED BEAR]

they have no one to blame but there self!! i used to smoke 5 packs of cigarettes a day obama raised the taxes i quit that day used to drink like a fish got married and had a kid i can count the drinks I've had in the last 40 years on one hand. it is a matter of self controll. these people are not addicts becouse they can't stop they dont want to. I've known a lot of doppers over the years and none wanted to stop. it may sound hard but i don't care if they all od the world will be better off. all this its not there fault is a bunch of mess. no one made them take the first dose and to say they got hooked ny the doctor well i guess any excuse is better than blameing them. they should legalize all drugs and maybe we could get rid of them sooner. you know for the first half of this country all drugs were legal its only when the government gets involved is there a problem. if people want to mess up therelife then let them do it!!!

[Mohawk Daddy]

Idaho Guy's graph of heroin deaths is frightening enough, but I just read that in 2016 there were a total of 64,000+ overdose deaths in the US. That's more people than we lost in Vietnam and in just one year. (I can't provide a link. Look it up.)
In my own experience, the ex-wife of a friend OD'd on prescription narcotics about 4 years ago; their grown son has been in and out of prison on drug charges repeatedly. The son of another friend clocked out about 2 years ago; that guy had been a registered nurse before he lost his ticket for substance abuse. A neighbor I barely knew came to my front door (his first time there) asking if I had any "pain pills" I might give him. I told him truthfully that I had none and offered to give him $10 to buy whiskey for his pain. He wasn't interested. Another neighbor got hold of some drugs that were too good for him and tried to kill his wife. Now he's looking at 15-20 years (estimated). It's an epidemic, in my opinion, and it's getting worse.

[Thundarstick]

Of course there's an opioid crisis! What side of it you fall on probably determines how you feel about it, and what should be done about it.

[MaryB]

I take pain meds to deal with severe chronic pain( 9 joint surgeries in 12 years, 2 on the spine, spine is self fusing slowly which is EXTREMELY painful, torn rotator cuff left side, torn ACL both knees, bone spurs in my hips...). My doc prescribes a max amount then trusts me to take the minimum needed to get through the day. I have been managing my med levels successfully for 8 years and doing it so well she asked me to talk to a group and try to get them to use less.

First thing I heard from most of them is "If I take less I feel pain".... I had t explain to them that the meds shouldn't take the pain away, it is a reminder we are injured and to watch what we do so we don't make our injuries worse. Take just enough to get moving in the morning, if needed boost it mid day then take 1 pill before bed to help tone it down so you can sleep.

Several asked me what my pain level was, I was having a bad day and I told then a 9 out of 10, most people would be screaming for morphine but I took my minimum dose that morning to get my body moving and that moving during the day is a MUST. Set 1 project a day that is physical to keep your joints moving, if pain gets to high then and only then take more meds. Pain tells lets you know you are alive and learning to deal with it is better than being doped to the gills. If you take meds to take all pain away you are an addict!

Several people got up and left at that point, ones my doc pulled aside and told them they were getting their meds cut and going on random drug tests once a month for street drugs. The rest asked more questions, especially how to deal with family if you hurt... I said tell them you hurt and to not expect you to do what you did in the past, grouse to each other if you know someone else in pain, they will understand and not complain about you being a grouch.

I get by on half what is prescribed 90% of the time, the other 10% can vary up to full dose if needed like if I do something stupid like lift a half full 5 gallon bucket of wheel weights(still paying for that!). There will be days you just have to get something done so do it and bump your dose up as needed to whatever your max prescription is for a day or two then go back down. If you have a good day skip meds completely, if you are using them for pain you won't be addicted and won't have withdrawal effects skipping 1 day.

My doc said about half have listened to me and gone to managing their meds as needed instead of a set daily dose, and several have seen pain levels drop off by setting a physical task once a day that keeps muscles and joints moving. The rest she has gone to strict management of their meds herself and is pushing them to move to a pain specialist for treatment so she doesn't have the extra workload on top of her GP duties. And yes all the people signed an agreement to participate in the talk and share their med history with me. Several should be cut off they do not have a chronic pain condition...

The problem has been over prescribing for acute pain like after surgery. Instead of 3-7 days docs were prescribing 14 days getting people hooked... then when they get cut off they turn to street drugs and OD

And if you haven't experienced severe chronic pain you do not know what kind of a hell it turns your life into!

[TXGunNut]

Several years ago I was (over)prescribed Hydrocodone for several weeks after a back injury. Insurance company refused to authorize surgery. I had no idea what I was doing; took one so I could get moving in the morning and another to sleep at night. Much less than the max prescribed. Figured it was no big deal. One Friday the doc finally woke up and refused to allow the pharmacy to refill the prescription. I figured I could make it thru the weekend. Wrong! I'm one of those folks who had a really bad time with withdrawals. I was as sick as I've ever been and had no idea why. Third day I was able to do a little research and figured it out. Never saw that sorry excuse for a doc again! A year or two later I had oral surgery and the dentist prescribed 30 Vicodin or Oxycontin after I told him I could not take Hydrocodone. Like a dummy I took two over the following day or two and had to go through the withdrawal thing all over again. Not sure I'm getting all the drug names right but you get the idea, they're pretty much all the same as far as my system is concerned. With docs doing stupid stuff like this I wasn't surprised to learn that these pills and the docs who overprescribe them are a real problem and in recent years others are finally starting to see it too. Last time I had surgery I found that two Ibuprofen every now and then works just fine for me. I guess I'm lucky.
I was doing the LE thing when Heroin started to make a comeback. My LE career started in the early 80's and I heard terrible stories about how nasty it was. I figured something as terrible as Heroin would never make a comeback. Wish I'd been right.

[Jeff Michel]

So you don't wish someone could have saved your own brother with a dose of narcan ?

It doesn't help, that's my point. My brother, my friends and the other people I've known that has succumbed to drug over doses, made a choice and it cost them in the end. I never said it wasn't tragic and it's certainly a horrible way to die, but not a single one of these people were forced, and if you spend sometime talking to police or emergency medical personal the common consensuses is that if you take it, it will eventually take you. That's why stories of people that have kicked the addiction is so rare. What you don't hear is the stories of these same people dying later from an overdose. You only need to take this once and your hooked. That's why your first "hit" is always a freebie. We had three OD's on a single Saturday not long ago. My town has a population 15,000 people. Yes, it's problem, no question. But the problem of how to solve it it much more difficult. The compassionate side of our being wants to help these people as much as we can even though deep down it's probably fruitless. The realistic side wants to punish the people who deal out this poison to our people but, we don't have the will to be really harsh. Look how the Philippines handle drug runners. They catch them and shoot them and the world raises their collective hands in horror and they says "She's a grandmother" and what they don't say is she is really a person that sells drugs that kill people. That option works probably works the best against repeat offenders but it's not really all that effective. The problem is that people are taking the drugs, when that demand is lessened through attrition then drugs usage will drop proportionately. Cold, yup. but a statistical certainty. You can't cure human nature regardless of the insanity of some of their actions. This will have to run it's course like any other epidemic.

[Shopdog]

I had some record book sized kidney stones a cpl years ago.Before finally being carried to the doctor,the pain was so intense,I'd pass out.

So anyway,the kidney stone specialist gets me all squared away by "zapping" them,which worked great.He prescribes 10 oxy sumthin for the pain.I took them exactly how it was written up.When going back a few days later,looked him straight in the eye and said no thanks on a refill.Could feel the addictive effects in that short of period.

I don't have a clue on how to go about solving this opioid problem?

[snowwolfe]

Addicts will be addicts. Knoxville news station posted a clip the other day some EMS crews have actually administered Narcan TWICE to the same addict in one day. The EMS crews also mentioned Narcan seems to be losing its effectiveness possibly due to addicts consuming higher amount of drugs with more strength.