Precision primer insertion?

[DonMountain]

I don't use a bench mounted priming system. I do use, and love the RCBS Universal hand primer system.

There is a definite "feel" to a perfectly set primer. As well as an primer going into a dirty hole which approaches that level of feel is either

A Primer fully inserted, hand lever all the way up. Or

B Primer NOT fully inserted, hand lever only 2/3rds of the way up.

So when in doubt you have a quick visual check.

I looked at this tool on the RCBS website, there was no explanation on how the primer insertion depth is adjusted. The RCBS RAM-PRIME that I use is easy to adjust by screwing the device up or down and setting the locknut like you do with a typical set of reloading dies. On the Hand-Primer I see that when the handle is all the way in the primers are set to a certain depth. But is that point adjustable?

[DonMountain]

Are we going to use the 9mm as a bench rest cartridge now? Seat the primers for proper function and forget about the rest with pistol cartridges. Uff dah!

There, this is what I want! Thank you for stating this Dan Cash! My antique 9mm Luger pistols seem to have a high percentage of misfires unless the primers are set to the exact same depth in the cartridge cases. So, we all know if I am using "range brass" the primer pockets are not all the same depth unless I ream them all to the same depth. Since I am not shooting a 1000 yard competition with my 9mm Luger pistols, I can accept a minimal number of "crushed" primers as they still seem to always fire ok anyway. So, I was just looking for a way to do this with some sort of automatic primer feed system. With so many different brands of cases that I have in 9mm Luger, any system that I use to prime using just "feel" for depth control does not get the job done properly for me. And this only affects priming of these various range 9mm Luger brass. All of my other brass I buy in lots of 100 to 500 from one manufacturer and prime them in matched sets so I can "feel" the proper setting of the primers, like most of you do.

[jmorris]

The one with the gauge, http://kmshooting.com/primer-tools/p...imer-gage.html

With that tool your back to....

Unless the primer pockets are cut precisely the same, seating primers to the same depth will leave some not fully seated, and others crushed.

If you are just seating to the same number on the gauge.

Reading the description of that one it still says seat by “feel” though. I guess the gauge would let you know the different depths of primer pockets.

[EDG]

Who knows the most about accuracy and consistent performance?
It sure isn't anyone shooting a 9mm or any other pistol.

Are we going to use the 9mm as a bench rest cartridge now? Seat the primers for proper function and forget about the rest with pistol cartridges. Uff dah!

[DonMountain]

Who knows the most about accuracy and consistent performance?
It sure isn't anyone shooting a 9mm or any other pistol.

But I can tell immediately when I pull the trigger if I have attained "consistent performance" from one of my 9mm Luger pistols. It either fires or it doesn't. When I started loading for these by setting my primers by "feel", I had a 30% non-fire problem. That improved by taking each case out of the priming tool and checking for primer position in the case. And pushing the high ones in a little farther. But until I started using the RCBS RAM-PRIME tool and adjusting the seating depth until it gave me consistent depth control, I didn't reach 100% firing of each cartridge in all of my pistols. Although some of them came out looking a little crushed, they always fired. But that one with the crushed primer could have been the one that was outside of the pattern on the target. But all the ones that didn't fire never hit the target either!

[Hick]

RCBS Hand primer all the way

[kmw1954]

After reading all of this I had to go pour a drink. Seems we've taken the simple task of setting primers and turned it into an advanced degree close to brain surgery. We are not splitting atoms here. I am amazed that someone hasn't come up with a spring tension gauge to measure how much pressure it's taking to seat each primer kind of like a torque wrench.

Sorry guys but I do it the worst way possible according to most. I seat primers on a Lee Pro 1000 progressive press and I do it 95% of the time. The rest are done using a Lee Value turret press. How AWEFUL can you get? I can honestly explain every flipped or crushed primer that's came thru that press in the past 2 years and every one was operator error, lack of paying attention or moving to quickly when I knew something wasn't right or getting out of rhythm.. Even then I have flipped, crushed or damaged 5 primers in the last 3000 used. Honestly I have dropped and lost more than that just filling or removing the primer tray.

If I wanted this as easy as possible I would eliminate every brand of brass that I have run across that has tight or problematic primer pockets. The reason I don't is probably like everyone else because if I did I would reduce my usable brass by at least 1/2.

You all keep doing what you're doing and I'll stick with what's worked for me quite well.

[ioon44]

I have been seating primers on my Dillon 550 I started with in the 1990's and never have an issue with miss fires, I load around 25,000 rounds per year.

[jmorris]

I am amazed that someone hasn't come up with a spring tension gauge to measure how much pressure it's taking to seat each primer kind of like a torque wrench.

You don’t have to have loaded very long to know that how much force it takes to seat a primer is dependent on each case. Whey folks always say certain brands of cases have “tight” primer pockets and such, it takes more force to properly seat them.

But yeah, if you made every primer pocket you had to the same ID and depth you would have a lot better chance of repeatable results seating with the same force and/or depth.

I agree with the do what makes you happy part too.

[DonMountain]

I have been seating primers on my Dillon 550 I started with in the 1990's and never have an issue with miss fires, I load around 25,000 rounds per year.

I have been seating primers on my Hornady 007 press with automatic primer feed for at least 30 years now too, with never a misfire. But all my brass was good old American made from Winchester, Remington and Federal. These oddball 9mm Luger and 380 ACP range brass are the ones giving me all the trouble. But I have learned my lesson now. I won't be buying any range brass any time soon. And probably switch to using all Starline brass made here in Missouri. I've had good luck with them. And I will be back to loading primers by "feel" like everybody else. Because it works well for me too.

[country gent]

Would be an interesting thing to try, one of the small lee presses set up with titans tourque wrench handle ( this is for crimping) seat a few primers adjusting torque to where you want the primers. This would seat each primer to the same ft lbs set on the wrench. a batch of ammo loaded in this manner and a batch loaded with primers set to feel then last a batch set to a set depth stop on the press. test fire and see what performs the best

[kmw1954]

Country gent that may be interesting but I doubt it would be conclusive.

[country gent]

It wouldn't be conclusive but would tell / confirm for the 1 gun tested. It would take a multitude of guns ammo and extensive testing cronographing, documenting and test firing done under controlled conditions otherwise.

[DonMountain]

Would be an interesting thing to try, one of the small lee presses set up with titans tourque wrench handle ( this is for crimping) seat a few primers adjusting torque to where you want the primers. This would seat each primer to the same ft lbs set on the wrench. a batch of ammo loaded in this manner and a batch loaded with primers set to feel then last a batch set to a set depth stop on the press. test fire and see what performs the best

This looks like an interesting proposal. I could unscrew the handle on my old Pacific C press and fabricate a shaft to screw back into its place, with a right angle bolt welded to it with the bolt head projecting so I can just put a click adjustable torque wrench on it as a handle to load with. And let it "break" torque on a series of different cases setting primers and then measure the depth of the primers, or the projection of the primers. Of course it would probably just "prove" what we all know already. Some makes of cases just take more effort to seat primers to the correct depth. With some of them going in so hard we can't "feel" when the bottom of the primer pocket is reached as opposed to the sliding in force it takes to push the primer in.

[Mal Paso]

This looks like an interesting proposal. I could unscrew the handle on my old Pacific C press and fabricate a shaft to screw back into its place, with a right angle bolt welded to it with the bolt head projecting so I can just put a click adjustable torque wrench on it as a handle to load with. And let it "break" torque on a series of different cases setting primers and then measure the depth of the primers, or the projection of the primers. Of course it would probably just "prove" what we all know already. Some makes of cases just take more effort to seat primers to the correct depth. With some of them going in so hard we can't "feel" when the bottom of the primer pocket is reached as opposed to the sliding in force it takes to push the primer in.

A load cell from an electronic scale between the ram and primer seating pin would give you the force directly in pounds or kilos.

[greenjoytj]

Using a primer pocket uniforming cutter tool like the Sinclair primer pocket uniforming tool, is the only way to guarantee all the pockets are at a uniform depth. Only with uniform pockets would a primer seating tool that pushes a set amount work to seat the primers to the bottom of the primer pocket every time.
I uniform all my primer pockets with the Sinclair cutter tool mounted in a Sinclair adapter for a Forester crank handled Deburring Tool Base. It’s a one time operation on each case.
A side advantage is I use the same tool to scrape clean the fouled dirty pockets after firing.
This shortens the time in the tumbler.
I also do flash hole uniforming, it’s also a one time operation.
I seat primers with a LEE Auto Bench Prime tool, the long leaver provides enough mechanical advantage to make it easy and you can “feel” the lever come to a abrupt stop when the primer meets the pocket bottom. And all primers are below flush of the case head.

[MT Chambers]

I seat all my primers on my Co-ax press, it feels so precise, I am not interested in speed.

[str8wal]

After reading all of this I had to go pour a drink. Seems we've taken the simple task of setting primers and turned it into an advanced degree close to brain surgery. We are not splitting atoms here. I am amazed that someone hasn't come up with a spring tension gauge to measure how much pressure it's taking to seat each primer kind of like a torque wrench.

Sorry guys but I do it the worst way possible according to most. I seat primers on a Lee Pro 1000 progressive press and I do it 95% of the time. The rest are done using a Lee Value turret press. How AWEFUL can you get? I can honestly explain every flipped or crushed primer that's came thru that press in the past 2 years and every one was operator error, lack of paying attention or moving to quickly when I knew something wasn't right or getting out of rhythm.. Even then I have flipped, crushed or damaged 5 primers in the last 3000 used. Honestly I have dropped and lost more than that just filling or removing the primer tray.

If I wanted this as easy as possible I would eliminate every brand of brass that I have run across that has tight or problematic primer pockets. The reason I don't is probably like everyone else because if I did I would reduce my usable brass by at least 1/2.

You all keep doing what you're doing and I'll stick with what's worked for me quite well.

I'm with ya, brother. Been seating primers on my Lee turret for decades and never had a fail to fire. What's the big deal?

[MostlyLeverGuns]

Primer pocket reaming/uniforming ends the variability in seating primers in various brands of cases. I found seating primers in military brass, even after swaging and/or reaming the primer crimp took more pressure than I cared for. Matching cases brand to primer brand can help. I use the RCBS and Lee hand primers, sorry BUT primer seating is a simple feel exercise. The new Frankford Hand primer does allow for depth adjustment, but I haven't found any real benefit to it. The Lyman 310 Tong Tool primer seating die, most of the 'ram primers' that screw into a press, the older 'one at a time' by Lee, K&M and others all seem to work fine with MOST cases and primers. Sometimes the primer itself can be a problem. I have a couple hundred magnum primers from 30+ years ago that have never been easy to seat in ANY case. No easy answer, too many variables- case make, times fired, pressure when fired, primer make, priming tool leverage...phase of the moon, high or low tide - that is why 'FEEL' is still important.

[fivefang]

Country Gent, seating GC's for my 6.5x55on my saeco lub sizer, I noticed that it was easy to bump the noses, so I welded a 3/8 drive socket on the lever & used a snap on torque wrench, not using precise alloys, I still got a variance, but to a lesser extent, the first priming tool was a 310, chamfering started with mil.surp. /range pick brass, overall , a clean pr. pocket does help a lot, Fivefang