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Thread: Taming Recoil on sharps carbine

  1. #1
    Boolit Master
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    Taming Recoil on sharps carbine

    Guys - I am shooting a IAB carbine style sharps and have a SPECIFIC question about adding weight to it - dont need to be told its a piece of junk that I should replace ! (for the record it has never broken, been worked over by a top riflesmith, and has an accurate barrel) Problem is it weighs in just a whisker over eight pounds and with a 500 grain boolit shot prone it hurts - I need to get it up to 12 pound - to that end I have added two pounds of lead to the butt end - Question is ---I am considering making a LEAD forend to replace the wood - that would get me most of the weight - the wood attaches by two screws that engage dovetails set in the barrel - my concern is 1) is the lead forend gonna hold against recoil without deforming OR pulling the screws / dovetail out 2) is it gonna damp the barrel out and cause inconsistent accurracy-----open to any thoughts here
    (dont need advice on kick pads and stuff for the rear end at this point thank you)

  2. #2
    Boolit Master Randy Bohannon's Avatar
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    My Pedersoli Gibbs Rifle has pewter poured into a cavity in the stock, it is a oval shaped hole and you can feel significant weight has been added. Adding nearly four pounds is maybe not going to happen without rebarelling to a long heavy octagon barrel. The carbine stock is probably not big enough to allow a cavity to accommodate nearly four pounds of anything. My thoughts on the subject.
    Last edited by Randy Bohannon; 06-12-2018 at 05:35 AM.

  3. #3
    Boolit Master
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    What caliber are you shooting?

  4. #4
    Boolit Master Don McDowell's Avatar
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    The drop on that stock is the biggest culprit. The best you can do is try one of the limbsaver slip on recoil pads, and do the bulk of your shooting from the sitting position.
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  5. #5
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    Wayne Smith's Avatar
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    Are you adding weight to meet some sort of standard or do you just want to shoot the rifle without pain? If the latter consider that the 405gr boolit was standard for the carbine, the 520gr was too heavy and created the exact problem you have. My recommendations are (1) switch to a lighter boolit and (2) get a PAST pad.
    Wayne the Shrink

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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Don McDowell View Post
    The drop on that stock is the biggest culprit. The best you can do is try one of the limbsaver slip on recoil pads, and do the bulk of your shooting from the sitting position.
    Don thanks - yes that stock - I looked at drilling it to add lead internally but its pretty skinny so Ihave made a lead buttplate about half inch thick and that got me two pounds and working on the comb now to raise it - my 1876 uberti is much fuller and straighter there and nicer to shoot even after the sharps came up to similar weight - I can make a leather butt cover and tidy all that up - I shoot in a padded vest that helps a bit - bench time at home I made a tall bench and stand behind it elbows down and an adjustable rest under the forearm - shoulder is ok most times but if I shoot prone it gets me down in the mid back -

    Was hoping you would come in on this - what do you think about that lead forend idea - plan was duplicate the forend wood in solid lead alloy - radical I know but it would get me the weight, would bring the gun back into balance - do you think it would work or would the recoil dislodge it - - or would that lead damp the barrel down somehow? this little gun has two screws through the forend wood into dovetailed fittings under the barrel - I reckon I can do it without making it look too horrid

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by varsity07840 View Post
    What caliber are you shooting?
    45/70

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wayne Smith View Post
    Are you adding weight to meet some sort of standard or do you just want to shoot the rifle without pain? If the latter consider that the 405gr boolit was standard for the carbine, the 520gr was too heavy and created the exact problem you have. My recommendations are (1) switch to a lighter boolit and (2) get a PAST pad.
    Just tryin to keep meself outta the chiropractors clutches done the lighter boolit for closer range stuff and yeah it works good - have got a few of those 405 grain loaded for test but thinkin 500 yards is too far for it ? with the lead buttplate it weighs ten pound and much better but is way tail heavy and needs more up front. Wayne my shoulder is taking it ok and off my standing bench is no problem - but the couple of serious matches I shoot are 500 or 600 yards prone - no bruised shoulder but feel it in my back. Only a couple times a year can live with it.

  9. #9
    Boolit Master Don McDowell's Avatar
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    I don't believe the lead forearm will help much. Best bet would be to replace the butt stock with a shotgun butt stock, with less drop than the carbine stock and a comb that comes about to the height of the bottom of the channel in the action. An add on pistol grip may help with the current stock.
    GUSA #6
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    Want to join in adult conversation about shooting the old ways without the hysterics associated with other places?http://historicshooting.com/mybb/index.php

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randy Bohannon View Post
    My Pedersoli Gibbs Rifle has pewter poured into a cavity in the stock, it is a oval shaped hole and you can feel significant weight has been added. Adding nearly four pounds is maybe not going to happen without rebarelling to a long heavy octagon barrel. The carbine stock is probably not big enough to allow a cavity to accommodate nearly four pounds of anything. My thoughts on the subject.
    It needs restocking really and I have my eye open for a nice piece of native timber to do it - long term project though. I bought this gun cheap ages ago - its got the purtiest case colours you ever saw - the logic being I could rebarrel it and restock it and it still owe me less than a Pedersoli (logic dont always apply with guns tho!)

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Don McDowell View Post
    I don't believe the lead forearm will help much. Best bet would be to replace the butt stock with a shotgun butt stock, with less drop than the carbine stock and a comb that comes about to the height of the bottom of the channel in the action. An add on pistol grip may help with the current stock.
    Got the add on pistol grip - the bloke that had it originally did that and also made a real nice smaller hammer for it - only a single trigger and I use double sets on my frontloaders but this trigger is as clean and sharp as can be - the restock plan is best answer I think (long term and if I use local native wood instead of walnut can gain a good amount of weight there) ....ok I can make an add on for a tryout to raise the comb - it will look like a trap shooters hacked up gun for a while - thanks for the kick along

  12. #12
    Boolit Master Don McDowell's Avatar
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    I wouldn't loose much sleep over the single trigger. A properly tuned and crisp single trigger with the pull at 2 1/2 or 3 pounds, is every bit as good and maybe better than double set triggers.
    GUSA #6
    People will forget what you said...
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    But People will NEVER forget how you made them feel

    Want to join in adult conversation about shooting the old ways without the hysterics associated with other places?http://historicshooting.com/mybb/index.php

  13. #13
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    405 gr bullets and 55 gr powder carbine load. I had an H&R Officers Model Trapdoor that was murder off the bench with rifle loads.
    Oddly enough my .50-70 converted 1863 is not too bad with the standard rifle load(they never came up with a carbine load), but, then again I've never shot any of my BPCRs from the prone position.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Don McDowell View Post
    I wouldn't loose much sleep over the single trigger. A properly tuned and crisp single trigger with the pull at 2 1/2 or 3 pounds, is every bit as good and maybe better than double set triggers.
    I agree Don - the guy tuned this one got it really good

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by varsity07840 View Post
    405 gr bullets and 55 gr powder carbine load. I had an H&R Officers Model Trapdoor that was murder off the bench with rifle loads.
    Oddly enough my .50-70 converted 1863 is not too bad with the standard rifle load(they never came up with a carbine load), but, then again I've never shot any of my BPCRs from the prone position.
    yeah prone is a dumb idea - but its what they do where we go - its a hangover from the old fullbore .303 days - when I was a kid there would have been a dozen of those thousand yard ranges still in good enough shape to be functional within an hours drive of my place - mounds every 100 - couple of target frames that worked - field telephone line to the butts - they just slowly dwindled down - one still functional and used for metal targets another one almost built out by housing and shut down to 300yards - thats it others are all gone.
    Playing with 500 to 550grain Grease boolits over 65 - 68 grains of FFF got my own little range setup to 500 .

  16. #16
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    I have the same problem with recoil and even a 12 LB 45-70 rifle doesn't help much. As Don pointed out, the skinny butt stock is a large part of the problem. I shoot with my face pressed down on the stock and when I pull the trigger it is like I just received a hard left hook from George Foreman. I did buy the cushioned pad that wraps around the stock and it helps but there just isn't enough stock. I did see something that would help, I think. I was watching one of the on-line videos about loading the 45-70 and the shooter had one of those add on cheek pieces. I don't know where he got it but I would like to give it a try.
    A GUN THAT'S COCKED AND UNLOADED AIN'T GOOD FOR NUTHIN'........... ROOSTER COGBURN

  17. #17
    Boolit Master Mytmousemalibu's Avatar
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    Any chance a mercury recoil reducer/damper would fit in the stock?

    You could machine a forend out of brass or even make a brass bedding that attaches to the forend and cast it into a lead forend to strengthen its attachment.

    Just trying to think outside the box. Ive had to come up with some unusual fixes for unusual problems in the past. Kinda a specialty of mine. I was running a fully tricked out M&P for my USPSA Open Division race gun which being polymer is at a weight disadvantage against the common 2011's Tanfoglio's. So i routed out extra polymer inside the dust cover area and made a mold pattern and took a cast of that. Off that I cast a lead slug that droped into the routed dust cover for extra weight. That got put in with aircraft structural adhesive.

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  18. #18
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    joe,
    if you really want to reduce felt recoil, restocking would be a good idea.
    a straighter stock is more user friendly.
    then put a 32" barrel on it, as this allows a sight radius to be set up in true minutes of angle.
    if you want to shoot silhouette, there is a weight limit for that.
    as well as a rifle balanced to shoot chickens offhand is different to one balanced to shoot off a rest.
    firther recoil reduction can be had by going to a 40/82 with a 1/12 or 1/13 twist barrel.
    this will still use your current extractor, and allow bullets of 1.5" long for 13, and 1.55 long for 12.
    these bullets, at the speed they do, give up nothig to a 45/2.4" in the wind out to 1000 yds.
    for purely long range you can use a rifle up to 15 lb.
    the 40 cal bullets that compete with 540 gn 45 cals will weigh about 440 gns, a significant reduction in recoil.
    charges will be similar to the 45/70 with bullets designed for long range.
    of course the best long range bullets are pp, as they have no drag inducing speed humps on them.
    keep safe,
    bruce.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by GOPHER SLAYER View Post
    I have the same problem with recoil and even a 12 LB 45-70 rifle doesn't help much. As Don pointed out, the skinny butt stock is a large part of the problem. I shoot with my face pressed down on the stock and when I pull the trigger it is like I just received a hard left hook from George Foreman. I did buy the cushioned pad that wraps around the stock and it helps but there just isn't enough stock. I did see something that would help, I think. I was watching one of the on-line videos about loading the 45-70 and the shooter had one of those add on cheek pieces. I don't know where he got it but I would like to give it a try.
    If I can get it to 12 pound it would be fine - even at ten its a lot better - saw that strap on cheekpiece ages ago - will go look for the video - I could make one of those - my stock setup is about right for offhand at closer ranges (proly a good chicken gun!) -- had not focussed on that too much drop stock as I spent years being clobbered by a CVA 54 ML that was way too straight for my fat face - ended up making a jig and hot oil bending it and another to get them to fit me. Comes down to it I would rather the sore shoulder than give meself right jabs to the nose every shot ........(too straight = worse than too much drop I reckon)

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mytmousemalibu View Post
    Any chance a mercury recoil reducer/damper would fit in the stock?

    You could machine a forend out of brass or even make a brass bedding that attaches to the forend and cast it into a lead forend to strengthen its attachment.

    Just trying to think outside the box. Ive had to come up with some unusual fixes for unusual problems in the past. Kinda a specialty of mine. I was running a fully tricked out M&P for my USPSA Open Division race gun which being polymer is at a weight disadvantage against the common 2011's Tanfoglio's. So i routed out extra polymer inside the dust cover area and made a mold pattern and took a cast of that. Off that I cast a lead slug that droped into the routed dust cover for extra weight. That got put in with aircraft structural adhesive.

    If there's a will, there's a way!
    thanks Chris

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check