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Thread: a few PP range trips under my belt, having fun and a question.

  1. #1

    a few PP range trips under my belt, having fun and a question.

    So I'm shooting my 1874 Sharps and the BACO 540 gr Money PP bullet. My first trip was the maiden voyage and I loaded up 68 gr of Swiss 1.5F. I'm performing all my testing at 200 meters. So this load shows promise. I shot a 4" group but i'm also experiencing some random fliers. This might be given the fact i'm shooting with a very low power 5x MVA scope, and also due to the fact i'm a new single shot BP shooter. My velocities with the 68gr load was about 1187 fps. Next range trip I loaded up both 70gr and 80 gr of Swiss 1.5F to test some wider velocities capabilities. The 70 gr load shot a nice 5.38" group but again a couple substantial fliers that were just off the edge of my 9" paper plate target. Velocities for the 70gr load were about 1197. The 80gr load shot a nice 4 shot group that measured 2.960" at 10 oclock , but oddly more grouped random fliers. I had a small 2 shot group at 3 oclock on the edge of the paper plate, and a tight 2 shot group at 6 oclock on the edge of the paper plate. The 80gr load shot about 1275 fps, and I really started to feel elevated felt recoil fatigue. I'm not a big guy and even with a recoil pad I was getting sore. I also inspected my paper and i'm getting the correct confetti rifling cuts on the paper. So still much testing to be done but overall things went well. My only question is about wiping between shots. I was doing 2 moist wipes as a lot of crud pushes out the bore. Are you supposed to do a dry swab after a wet swab ?

  2. #2
    Boolit Master
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    When shooting PP and wiping, yes, you had better dry the bore before loading. Wet wiping only is for greasers. With pp, your bore cannot de to clean or too dry...

  3. #3
    Boolit Master

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    with fouling control, what's most important for me to dry off is the chamber.

    for fouling control, better yet one of the bore wiper types, with a dry patch tagging along behind it. the idea is that it's never gonna be after-shoot put-away clean, just consistently "clean" to some standard level from shot to shot.

    fwiw, i have a chronic "frozen shoulder" condition and there is a need for me to load 81 grains of swiss 1-1/2f under a 528 grain BACO PPB in order to create a virtual 45-90 cartridge load. my relief is a kick killer leather lace-on butt pad. it's internal akton gel does a great job of taming the felt recoil and i've gone through many dozens of these rounds in one range session. best 35 bucks i've spent on big bore rifle accoutrements.

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  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by rfd View Post
    with fouling control, what's most important for me to dry off is the chamber.

    for fouling control, better yet one of the bore wiper types, with a dry patch tagging along behind it. the idea is that it's never gonna be after-shoot put-away clean, just consistently "clean" to some standard level from shot to shot.

    fwiw, i have a chronic "frozen shoulder" condition and there is a need for me to load 81 grains of swiss 1-1/2f under a 528 grain BACO PPB in order to create a virtual 45-90 cartridge load. my relief is a kick killer leather lace-on butt pad. it's internal akton gel does a great job of taming the felt recoil and i've gone through many dozens of these rounds in one range session. best 35 bucks i've spent on big bore rifle accoutrements.
    Thanks Rob,
    The only reason i'm testing an 80+ gr load is so I have the best velocities when I attempt 600 yds at my club. Like you , I will have my conservative <68gr loads for short range, then I also want to have a more stout and flatter shooting load for 600 yd midrange. Shooting 20 rounds of 80gr Swiss 1.5 really packed a wallop on my skinny, meatless shoulder (even wearing my PAST recoil pad ! )

  5. #5
    Boolit Master

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    i started out with the magnum past pad ... and suffered. you really want the kick killer butt pad.

  6. #6
    Boolit Master

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    Test with different aiming points and larger ones. for a standard cross hair I like a square About 3" at 200 yds but I don't center it, I "bracket a corner in the corner of the cross hairs. I can see this every time easier with the 6X MVA scopes I use. Sometime a 3"-4" diamond works well also. I use this with the 4 min circle reticle in my one scope or a round aiming point that just fits inside the ring with 1/2 min of white showing all around. Don't make it a seeing contest use a aiming point that fits your reticle and is easily repeatable.


    Another area to watch is positioning on the rest the same place every time, find the dead node on the barrel or where you prefer to rest and mark it to the center of your sticks. ( pin stripe tape works well for this 1/4" wide). Also watch cheek pressures and tension on the rifle. when all is right the rifle slides back in the sticks straight back. If its jumping a lot something isn't the same. These rifles for as heavy as they are can "flex" with different pressures applied and shooting on and off the node also has a big effect.

    I don't wipe but do blow tube, I haven't gotten around to testing wiping yet. But I believe you do need to dry the chamber also after 2 damp patches.

    Another is How are you wrapping your bullets. with a tail, flat fully covered base, of mostly covered base with a small center of lead showing in the middle? Have you recovered any patches if so how are they looking. My patches come of at the muzzle first rap is pretty much confetti and the under wrap shows rifling compression and the base fold is attached. no real discoloration to them. I wrap with a small center of lead showing in the center, this is around .060-.090 dia and allows for a very flat consistant base for wads and pressure to push against.

  7. #7
    Thanks country gent for the feedback. Typically thus far I was resting the wood forgrip on my rest. The most recent range trip I started resting directly on the barrel. I'll make note to experiment with different barrel length resting positions. I do understand how barrel vibration sin waves affect consistiancy. I was not sure if it's ok to rest the barrels directly on your support surface. As for my patching I'm folding over about .100" . I'm definitely struggling a bit with consistiant paper rolling tension. I'm "all thumbs" at the moment but getting nicer rolls as I gain experience.

  8. #8
    Boolit Man
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    Road Clam,
    YOu can find the node point on your barrel:
    Hold the rifle by the action, barrel hanging upside down.
    Use a hammer handle to lightly rap the barrel starting at the muzzle
    (yes, behind the front sight)
    The barrel will ring-metallic sound, and then as you move along rapping the
    barrel with the hammer Handle, you will find a spot where the sound will go
    a dead "clunk" that is your node point. some barrels will have more than
    one node.
    the node point is where to rest the barrel on your stix
    beltfed/arnie

  9. #9
    Boolit Master Don McDowell's Avatar
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    Sounds like you have a couple of things going on.
    First is your fouling control, 2 damps might not be enough, may need 3 or more depending on the humidity and heat. Always follow with a dry patch.
    Second, I'm wondering if you may not of been anticipating the recoil and pulling those fliers out?
    Resting on sandbags you'll want to rest the forearm on the bags, preferably with your offhand under the forearm.
    Make sure you have the parallax properly set for your shooting eye.
    GUSA #6
    People will forget what you said...
    People will forget what you did...
    But People will NEVER forget how you made them feel

    Want to join in adult conversation about shooting the old ways without the hysterics associated with other places?http://historicshooting.com/mybb/index.php

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by rfd View Post
    i started out with the magnum past pad ... and suffered. you really want the kick killer butt pad.
    Ok, I'm taking your advice! I ordered the KK pad, same as yours.

  11. #11
    Boolit Master
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    Most important will be what Don said. For top accuracy with paper patched bullets, you need the bore to be consistently clean and dry. Don't just dry the chamber. This will be more important the further you shoot.

    Chris.

  12. #12
    Boolit Man
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    I see more people with frozen shoulder, or we are simply getting older
    and more fragile.
    YOu should be checking out the 40 cal ctges for MUCH LESS recoil,
    and with proper loads/bullet design, they are competitive.

    beltfed/arnie

  13. #13
    Boolit Master

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    the wear and tear of life doth show its effects as one gets longer in the tooth, eh?

    been there and done that with a .40-65 and the difference 'tween that and a .45-70 is maybe 10 grains of swiss 1-1/2f. not much perceived difference to me or my shoulder. the issue is PPB cartridges, where unless a wad stack is used, there will be lots more powder to burn. and i want that added powder for heavier PPBs and longer distances. not complaining as i've had really good results with the kk pad. if that ever fails, i'll move down to a .38-55 cartridge and be glad i'm still shooting these kinda guns and still havin' as much fun as possible.

  14. #14
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by beltfed View Post
    I see more people with frozen shoulder, or we are simply getting older
    and more fragile.
    YOu should be checking out the 40 cal ctges for MUCH LESS recoil,
    and with proper loads/bullet design, they are competitive.

    beltfed/arnie
    good point arnie.
    40/72 or 40/82 with 13" twist and pp bullets will compete with a 45/2.4.
    keep safe,
    bruce.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check