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Thread: Canadian Indian Gift rifle and back action locks?

  1. #1
    Boolit Master Canuck Bob's Avatar
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    Canadian Indian Gift rifle and back action locks?

    Here is a link to a percussion trade gift rifle from the Canadian Government it seems, second rifle in picture with the back action lock.

    http://adviceotheprairie.blogspot.co...al-part-1.html

    Here is another forum thread.

    https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/brit...n--t19806.html

    Interested if anyone knows much about these rifles? There seems a connection to using recycled Baker barrels. I like the Canadian connection and the stock shape mirroring a military shape.

    Also interested in general info on back action locks?

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    nekshot's Avatar
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    wow, what a treasure to have and the historic accounts of that time period! I was recently back to PA and brought a nice walnut plank long enough for two long guns. The one gun stock is accounted for but the other I was not sure what to make of it. I do believe I found the right gun to copy(your great grandfathers) because the gun will have a real background for the inspiration of the project. I love Canadian history and especially the Lee rifle. Thanks for sharing your past.
    Look twice, shoot once.

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    Boolit Master
    nekshot's Avatar
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    Who would have a barrel close to the dimensions of that one? Any other advice from the sages, I am all ears.
    Look twice, shoot once.

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    Boolit Master Reverend Al's Avatar
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    None of the links on that website seem to be working? When I click on any of the links off to the right I get a "server not found" message ...???
    I may have passed my "Best Before" date, but I haven't reached my "Expiry" date!

  5. #5
    Boolit Master Canuck Bob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend Al View Post
    None of the links on that website seem to be working? When I click on any of the links off to the right I get a "server not found" message ...???
    I just checked and they still work for me. I drool on my shirt when IT problems develop. I'm a virtual ITiot.

  6. #6
    Boolit Master Canuck Bob's Avatar
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    There are a number interesting features and it might make for a nice tribute wannabe copy Trade Rifle.

    Folks list pros and cons for the back action lock but it was used extensively in the late percussion era. The weakened inletting for the wrist is worth considering yet many back action guns have survived well. Also the lockswere quite often used in the cartridge era, some searching revealed superb H&H back action shotgun locks on doubles. The narrow side lock region of the stock profile appeals most to me. There is talk of larger wrists with back actions though. The round reused barrel and stock profile make for an interesting transition gun of sorts.

    The full length stock with stock wedges and hook breech are a plus for ease of cleaning like my Investarm Hawkens look-a-likes are. There is also a chance they were supplied after Confederation, 1867, making them true trade rifles from the Dominion of Canada.
    Last edited by Canuck Bob; 06-09-2018 at 07:04 PM.

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    I don't think it was made for trade, as the gun has much nicer engraving than the Chief's grade guns.
    The solid soft lead bullet is undoubtably the best and most satisfactory expanding bullet that has ever been designed. It invariably mushrooms perfectly, and never breaks up. With the metal base that is essential for velocities of 2000 f.s. and upwards to protect the naked base, these metal-based soft lead bullets are splendid.
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  8. #8
    Boolit Master Canuck Bob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by waksupi View Post
    I don't think it was made for trade, as the gun has much nicer engraving than the Chief's grade guns.
    I think it was literally a high value gift rifle as named. I'm going to try and research this type for fun and interest. The starting point will be some books, web pages, and collector auction pages. I've only found the two links above but the hunt is on. It is a rifle type associated with the First Nations and unique to Canada, I'm betting such a nice rifle would have had a retail market to the general population, and at least one exists in England. It rivals the Hawkens in feature and function and would have been an excellent mounted buffalo rifle.

  9. #9
    Boolit Master Canuck Bob's Avatar
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    There is a copy of an article on these rifles on another of my forums.

    https://www.canadiangunnutz.com/foru...k-action-locks

  10. #10
    Boolit Master Canuck Bob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Canuck Bob View Post
    I think it was literally a high value gift rifle as named. I'm going to try and research this type for fun and interest. The starting point will be some books, web pages, and collector auction pages. I've only found the two links above but the hunt is on. It is a rifle type associated with the First Nations and unique to Canada, I'm betting such a nice rifle would have had a retail market to the general population, and at least one exists in England. It rivals the Hawkens in feature and function and would have been an excellent mounted buffalo rifle.
    Quote Originally Posted by waksupi View Post
    I don't think it was made for trade, as the gun has much nicer engraving than the Chief's grade guns.
    The new article link might be the source of the gift rifle theory. The article is interesting and offers an appealing argument but certainly not conclusive proof of the theory. Waksupi, I studied the pictures and articles with an eye to your comment. An argument for militia or general merchandise has merit too. I understand the back action guns were often associated with hardware store guns of medium quality(?). I'm only guessing at this point but removing the bayonet lug seems contrary to deeply held tactics of the British and bayonets from this era. One consideration is the economy of a trade rifle. Seems easiest to just make the already existing Chief's model in percussion if it was still in production.

  11. #11
    Boolit Master Canuck Bob's Avatar
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    I've been pointed to the Museum of the Fur Trade and James Hanson's book, Firearms of the Fur Trade, from their store. The book might detail this rifle. It would be north of $150CAD landed here. What are folks opinion? I have contacted Dr. Hanson at the Museum seeking info on this rifle as well.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check