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Thread: Talk to me about a 45/70 lever

  1. #21
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    hpbear101's Avatar
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    The 45-70 cartridge can be whatever you want it to be (depending on the action used) from a sedate Trail Boss load, to trapdoor safe load, to nearly a heavy magnum load. It is a hand loaders dream cartridge as there are so many documented bullet and powder combo's available to accomplish whatever your goal is.

  2. #22
    Boolit Master murf205's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brewer12345 View Post
    Unfortunately, I am at the point with my vision that any rifle I will use at 100 yards needs to be scopable.
    Brewer, you certainly know more about your eyesight than anybody else and I thought I needed a scope for my 1895 CB as well, but I bit the boolit and tried a Skinner Express sight and once I got used to using it, I can hit a piece of computer paper with a printed target at 100 yds reliably. Enclosed is the target I use (without holes, LOL) My bench shooting is not off of the bags directly but using the bag as a support for my hand under the forearm. The thought of putting a scope on my rifle just didn't do much for the appearance and I found that the skinner gave me enough accuracy for anything that a 45/70 would be used for. 70 yr old eyes are not for buckhorn sights IMHO. As for the looks, Skinner's are very appealing-to me anyway. Good luck.
    Last edited by murf205; 06-08-2018 at 10:55 PM.
    IT AINT what ya shoot--its how ya shoot it

  3. #23
    Boolit Master brewer12345's Avatar
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    murf, I have a Rossi 92 with the 24" octagon barrel which cannot be scoped. It has a long sight radius and a Marbles tang sight. I really couldn't see the front post through it, so I swapped it for a fiber optic which is a little too fat, but I can see it even in low light. At 100 yards, I can keep about all the 357 shots on a 12 inch target. Not accuracy I am happy with, but for a fun target challenge it is OK. For big game I would really rather put a small scope on the rifle and get much greater accuracy.
    "I have learned from experience that a modicum of snuff can be most efficacious." - the Baron von Munchausen

  4. #24
    Boolit Master murf205's Avatar
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ID:	221821Maybe a scout scope? Amen to the fiber optic sight. They are great in low light situations. I put a green one on my 4" 629 and it is a lot better than the S&W factory front sight.
    IT AINT what ya shoot--its how ya shoot it

  5. #25
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    I tried a scope on my 1895 and I found that with the recoil from the loads I was shooting, I couldn't see the impact of the round.
    I ended up buying a Skinner sight and I've got a couple apertures. With the fine aperture, I can reliably hit a 3" clay at 100 yards. At further ranges, I am happy to print on 5-7" targets.

  6. #26
    Boolit Man
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    I didn't think hot .45-70 rounds were painful at all. More of a strong push rather than a sharp kick like more modern cartridges. Of course the gun I was shooting them put of had a rubber butt pad on it...
    Now that Winchester has brought back the 1886 in .45-90 I might have to get one just to show up all the .45-70 folk.

  7. #27
    Boolit Mold
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    I have both a 336 in 35 Remington and a Guide Gun in 45-70. I concur with what others have said here. You can load them down to mild levels or way up there to world class power (and recoil). In experimenting at my loading bench I put together a load that was just a bit too much. First shot off the bench left me with a bruised shoulder (first time in all my years of shooting and I own a 338 Win Mag). I tried the second shot standing up and never bothered with a third.

    Keep the loads down to milder levels though and you should not have any issues. As far as an effective hunting load remember that old Trap Door rifle in this cartridge were used to kill Buffalo so I think you will be fine.

    As far as your aging eyes, have you ever tried aperture sights such as Skinner or XS as previously recommended? I much prefer them to open iron sights.

    Either way, if you are OK with the recoil from your 35 Remington you might want to consider just sticking with that as it is a great deer round. Really no need to step up to 45-70 if you are just going to hunt deer. That being said, I really do like my Guide Gun. It has XS sights installed along with the XS Scout rail and quick detach rings on my Scout scope. Very hand rifle and very versatile.

  8. #28
    Boolit Master murf205's Avatar
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    brewer12345, go to this website: www.MOD94SCOPERAIL.COM
    You got my curiosity up so I found this site and he makes putting a scout scope on a Rossi 92 look pretty simple, or really simple for a good 'smith. The scout gives the access to the action and ejection of a lever gun like yours and, to me at least, it seems to be a bit handier than a scope mounted closer to the eye on a lever gun. This mount utilizes the existing threaded hold in the receiver so the is no drilling a receiver.
    IT AINT what ya shoot--its how ya shoot it

  9. #29
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    Brewer: My .45-70 is a 1895 CB It weighed less than my 1894 CB in .44 Mag.

    I installed a gray coil Recoil Reducer and the main benefit of that thing was increasing the weight of the gun to 8 lbs. It also have a Pachmayer Recoil Pad installed. the gun is tolerable to shoot with 330 gr RCBS .45-300 RNGC boolits over 33 gr of 5744 for about 1550 fps. I can shoot 40 in one sitting at a Silhouette match and not suffer any adverse effects. I could probably take a few rounds of 405 gr boolits at 14-1500 fps but wouldn't make a habit of it.

    I started at 25 gr of 5744 with that same boolit and worked up until I had a usable trajectory to 200 yards. A 300 gr boolit at 14-1500 fps will kill anything on this continent and you should be able to handle the recoil.

    Biggest thing I can say about .45-70 Leverguns is they need to weigh at least 8 lbs, and 9 would be better. Then you can shoot heavier loads and not beat yourself to death. All the Marlins are too light, the 1886's are more like 9 lbs.

    Adding denser wood on the Marlins is a good way to weigh them down but adding some lead in the buttstock is a cheaper way.

    I like the Marlin action better than the Winchester because it is simpler to work on and responds well to simple deburring. The wood on Marlins can surprise you if you remove the factory paint and give it a good oil finish. My 1894 is quite fetching after refinish. My 1895 had pretty bland wood to begin with but came out nice after refinish, I have seen others more recently that are downright incredible. They make a nice 1895 18" Short Rifle that is particularly cool but I can see it being quite brutal with heavy loads..

    A Lyman 66LA rear sight is the way to go on the Marlins and an XS White line Front Sight.

    Randy
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    "It's not how well you do what you know how to do,,,It's how well you do what you DON'T know how to do!"
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  10. #30
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    Lately I've been shooting my Marlin Guide Gun. It's one of the early ones, with the 18" ported barrel. The ports don't bother me, and the short barrel doesn't appear to affect velocity either. The gun has a Lyman aperture rear sight, and the factory front. I'm probably going to get an XS Sights front sight, but haven't decided which one, post or big dot. My 1895 has a Pachmayr Decelerator pre-fit pad, which gives me another inch of length, which I need. I'm using 300 grain cast bullets and the minimum load for IMR 4198 from Speer No. 13. It's mild, accurate, and hits plenty hard. Wonderful gun.

  11. #31
    Boolit Master Drm50's Avatar
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    I've got a 70 model 1895 Marlin. I got it on trade, it came with original partial box of ammo in the
    box. The guy I got it off of was complaining about the kick. I took the scope off and put a Lyman
    66 on it. The only reason I kept it was because it shot fantastic. I was shooting 322 HP cast. I only
    used it for fun. Then Ohio came out with rifle season and the 95 was the only legal deer rifle I
    owned, out of 60+ rifles. I then went to 300gr Hornady HPs with hot IMR-3031. It shoots them as
    well as cast. I agree that 45/70 has a kick that is less sharp than most HV rifles. The recoil never
    bothered me and I'm 6' -160lb, no extra meat. All my BA magnums kick worse to me. I had a lite
    300mag that would jar your teeth, on other hand had a old Sako 375H&H that you could shoot all
    day. My 1895 kicks more than a stock model because I took the wood down like on the original
    1895. The bulky stock and forend are now flush with metal. Doing this it made the butt a lot
    smaller in area. Still I don't consider it a hard kicker. I would say it compares to a 870 20g shotgun

  12. #32
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    My 1895 Marlin 1970's era micro-grooved barrel. It shoots great! Bought 15 boxes of Federal 300 grain HP's at a local Kmart for 3 bucks a box.

    I killed many deer with that load. I made a few loads for bear with the brass 400 grain Speer SP's. Those loads I got carried away with at 1700 fps I could hold the forend at 1800 fps OWWW!!!!! I could not. Shot 1 bear with them and then went back to the Federal factory.

    Now I use a Gould HP at 1300 fps works on every thing here in NH.

  13. #33
    Boolit Master
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    I've decided to put a fiber optic front sight on my Marlin Guide Gun. I ordered a green sight from Tru Glo; should be here in a couple of days. I may drill a hole in the hood too, but not until I've tried it.

  14. #34
    Boolit Master
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    I am shooting a 350 grain cast with unique at 1300 FPS, very economical. Can shoot it all day long in my pistol grip 1895 S Marlin with 22” barrel. I can plink steel plates at 200 yards. I am sure it would shoot through about any animal on this continent. I also have a 336 35 Remington coming as we speak. Which will probably do everything the 45-70 does with flatter shooting.

    I took the scope mount off of my 1895. If you get a 1895 and want the mount, just trade me some 36 Remington brass for it.

  15. #35
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    Only big game I hunt is White Tail and have had the hots for a 45-70 for many years. But~~ I do not like the idea of owning a battering recoil rifle or the 45-70s bulkiness shouldering/ feel. (45-70 lever guns are big rifle's regardless of barrel length) The only thing intriguing about the cartridge is with Normal charges (not Ruger #1 velocity's) its 300 gr. plus bullet weight typically don't generate overwhelming amounts of bloodshot loss on deer size game. {kind'a like a muzzle loaders Patched Ball in theroy.} Would I now buy a button safety Marlin. Sure thing so's to rack up on the den wall. Although reality is: I have a dandy little 32 special now shooting paper patched cast lead & a sweet shooting 300 savage carbine for Fall still hunting walk-abouts. On the otherhand. You OP ~~I think you should purchase that 45-70 asap.
    "JUST A OLD DEPLORABLE THAT'S IRREDEEMABLE."

  16. #36
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    I use my Marlin Cowboy for silhouette matches, and loading 16 grains of Trailboss under a plain base 350 gr. RNFP cast it thumps the 200 yard rams good and hard - and without too much recoil...

  17. #37
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    Have a 1895 CB with 26" barrel. Main lods are 300-400 gr with minimum loads of Trail Boss. Recoil is similar to a 22LR. It can be loaded a lot hotter and will hurt a bunch when it goes BANG. Trap door loads killed Bison. Why would you want anything more?

  18. #38
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duckiller View Post
    Have a 1895 CB with 26" barrel. Main lods are 300-400 gr with minimum loads of Trail Boss. Recoil is similar to a 22LR. It can be loaded a lot hotter and will hurt a bunch when it goes BANG. Trap door loads killed Bison. Why would you want anything more?
    This is why you need MAX varget loads under your 500 grn boolit from a 45-70 Govt:
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  19. #39
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    Jaberwoky

  20. #40
    Boolit Master
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    I gave my buddy some cast boolits under a solid varget charge and he made a video:

    http://www.twonails.com/owncloud/ind...G8bs5v6GVRj3tC

    He was sceptical about my choices... I know the boolit was 500 grn PB, powder coated and I think it was like 40 grain of Varget - I know it was a "pretty full" case but not a compressed load. It was a while back that I gave him the boolits, it was mainly because they would not chamber in my Marlin...

    I love it!
    Last edited by 44Blam; 06-29-2018 at 01:27 AM.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check