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Thread: How soft can I cast a lee 310?

  1. #1
    Boolit Grand Master Tripplebeards's Avatar
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    How soft can I cast a lee 310?

    I am using it for deer hunting and if you’ve followed some of my previous posts I’ve been casting devistators and lee 240gr HP boolits. I casted all of these with 49% ACCOWW, 49% pure lead, and 2% pewter. I casted up 10lbs of lee 310’s today with the same mix. They all will be PC’d and GC. I am shooting them out of my ruger 77/44 with w296 and h110 with some healthy loads...21.5 to 24 gr. If I decide to use my lee 310’s I’d like to make sure I cast it soft so I will get expansion at higher velocities. Is my 50/50 mix going to give good expansion on thin skinned game like whitetail? If not how soft can I cast it without slumping or leading issues?

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    I'm no expert, but have killed a few deer with cast bullets in sabots from an inline, including Lyman's 300 grain (can't remember the mold number at the moment), and I think you're over thinking this. You hit a deer in the vitals with that bullet at the speeds you're looking at, no expansion necessary and you're gonna have a dead deer very quickly..

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    Goes as soft as you can accurately shoot. Speed isn't everything. Shot placement matters the most. Most of my rifle bullets are 10-12 bhn.
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    Boolit Master trapper9260's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rcmaveric View Post
    Goes as soft as you can accurately shoot. Speed isn't everything. Shot placement matters the most. Most of my rifle bullets are 10-12 bhn.
    I say the same for go with accurately shot you can. That is the main thing . Also shot placement matters.
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    I have shot the 44 Devastator on deer with a 8 BHN at around 1200 fps.
    I have no experience with Lee's 310 gr. 44 caliber boolit.
    I would think that a boolit that heavy that the hardness wouldn't matter.
    Just hit'em in the right spot.
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  6. #6
    Boolit Grand Master Tripplebeards's Avatar
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    I casted up the same mix a few weeks ago and it has a BH of 10.5. What I’d like to know is will I get some expansion with this softer boolit instead of poking straight through a deer? I can tell you my Devastators turn inside out with a full dose of w296 and are almost .8” and retain about 125 grains. Just wondering how much of a mushroom I’d get with a soft big lee 310 at full rifle velocities. I want it soft enough to mushroom causing some trauma, expansion,and energy transfer, instead of poking a hole in and out. I don’t want a hard boolit too hard causing a 100 plus yard tracking job. If so I’ll stick with the soft devistator. I’ll take some bloody meat over a tracking job 100% of the time. I’m not a shoulder shooter and normally take the same shot placement as I would poking an arrow through the animal aiming for the heart and lungs trying to avoid bones at all cost so I get a complete pass through.. I understand a kill shot is a kill shot but I want to use a bullet that has the capability to put an animal down quickly. I’ve shot coyotes with ballistic tips...bag flop vs hard FMJs which kill them but they run a long ways before expiring with the same broadside heart and lung shot. The softer bullet explodes and therefore energy transfer is all dumped inside the Animal giving it an instant death. I realize I’m not going to cast a boolit that fragile for deer but want a one soft enough to expand for every possibility of a quicker kill and try and out the animal down on the spot. I understand if the CNS is not hit some animals will not go down immediately but with more explosive or softer expandable boolit your odds of anchoring the animal where it stands is going to go way up. Like I said I don’t aim for head,neck or shoulders...and never will. I’ve seen guys and gals do this with rifles that shoot under MOA and either flinch or hit a branch. The shot goes an inch one way or another and the animal runs away wounded and suffers for days. For all the people that say They’ve harvested animals that have dropped on the spot this way you never hear how many they’ve wounded or thought they missed. To me it is not and never will be sportsman like to take a head or neck shot. Don’t get me wrong, when I was a kid I also took these shots and littlerally took deer heads off(for bragging rights) but over the years I’ve learned there is just to much room for error and have witnessed more bad shots by sorrounding hunters trying for head and neck shots. I’ve watched several deer come into my property with part of their faces blown off or hit too high or low In The neck suffering while I’m high up in my tree stand waiting for my usual huge buck and end up finishing the wounded animal off. If I don’t have a broadside shot where I can rap take my time to place a shot 2” behind the shoulder...I pass the animal up.

    Using jacket bullets on deer in my 06’ I’ve used 180 gr ballistic tips which make a bloody mess and sop deer where they stand, accubonds which poke a hole in and out and deer run hundreds of yards untill they expire...unless I aimed for an anchoring shoulder shot, seirrag game game kings that didn’t pass through the animal and less no blood trails along with 50-100 Yard no blood trailing dead deer. I finally went back to 180gr core locts which drop deer in their tracks 99% percent of the time. On a rare occasion they drop within a few feet to 40 yards. I want to cast a boolit that will act like a core loct. I would assume a 50\50 mix with the lee 310 at hiring velocities has to act close to the core loct as far as boolit mushrooming goes.
    Last edited by Tripplebeards; 06-06-2018 at 08:44 AM.

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    Nothing wrong with your alloy. I doubt expansion will be in you future with that velocity or that particular bullet. That big meplat is going to cause plenty problems for any deer you poke with it. I think everyone that has hunted has wanted a combination that drops an animal in it's tracks. Sadly it never seems to work that way, at least for me anyway. I have used that very bullet on deer, five if memory serves and by George, some dropped in their own shadow and others didn't even flinch, ran twenty or thirty yards and keeled over. These were virtually identical shots, heart/lung and they all behaved differently. You MIGHT get a hollow point to expand (Milhec 432-640 is one that I use) But I don't know if they are expanding or not, they still pass through and the deer still act the same way. You will probably be more adapt to shed bullet weight with a hollowpoint. I think the all of the previous posts were sound in their advise. It sounds like your pretty careful with your shots and if so, that combination will keep your freezer full.
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    You will get expansion with anything that you can scratch with a thumbnail. It is very likely you won't recover any of the 310s in a deer to prove the amount of expansion. It is also very likely you will have some very dead deer. Shot placement is KEY!
    Got a .22 .30 .32 .357 .38 .40 .41 .44 .45 .480 or .500 S&W cylinder that needs throats honed? 9mm, 10mm/40S&W, 45 ACP pistol barrel that won't "plunk" your handloads? 480 Ruger or 475 Linebaugh cylinder that needs the "step" reamed to 6° 30min chamfer? Click here to send me a PM You can also find me on Facebook Click Here.

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    Tripplebeards
    not sure you need any expansion on a 44 slug
    if you think of it many jacketed bullets of high regard claim
    to expand 1.5 times their diameter,you are starting out where
    they strive to be so any expansion you get from your alloy is a bonus
    your alloy choices should be made by accuracy of the combination you are using
    if you miss no alloy is worth a hoot in the dirt when you miss your target
    no pat answers for all guns its up to the operator
    Last edited by white eagle; 06-07-2018 at 05:02 PM.
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    I don't think you should go under 10BHN even with PC and GC. I agree with the others that with the boolits you are using and the velocity you will be getting that expansion should not be a concern.

    BTW: I'm using 12BHN with PC and so far have not seen any reason whatsoever to use a gas check in any pistol caliber. My 440gr 500 S&W load produces over 30k psi and shoots as clean and accurate as any J-word without a gas check and this is a boolit that is designed for one.

    Same goes for 454, 44, 45, and all of the smaller pistol cartridges. Oh yeah forgot the 340gr plain base 45-70 also. This is with trap door level loads. I haven't tried to push these hard yet.

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  11. #11
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    I have killed a few feral hogs with the Lee 310 from a 444. Cast 50-50 soww and coww. Holes you can stick your fist through. Pigs are more solid than deer, but it will still work.

  12. #12
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    One of the co-designers of that boolit used to be here on the site, he could likely help.

    NO expert for sure, but I'm guessing with that big ol flat front, expansion is not especially needed
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    Click image for larger version. 

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    That Lyman 300 grain SWC, sans gas check, in front of about 90 grains of Hogdon Triple Seven put this one on the ground in less than 20 yards. The only reason I didn't see her fall was all the flash and smoke a big dose of black makes in front of a scope. That bullet was cast hard enough that I could use it in a revolver, seems to me like it was 50/50 WW/range salvage, anyway I'm sure it didn't expand at all.

    When you're using pre-expanded bullets like you are, I don't think you need to worry about expansion. That Lee has a better meplat than does this Lyman, so it should be even better.

  14. #14
    Boolit Master dnepr's Avatar
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    I can’t comment on soft lee 310 boolits but cast hard from water quenched WW worked out well for me

    http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...ast-deer/page2

  15. #15
    Boolit Grand Master Tripplebeards's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dnepr View Post
    I can’t comment on soft lee 310 boolits but cast hard from water quenched WW worked out well for me

    http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...ast-deer/page2
    No offense but this is the reason I want to use a softer cast boolit. You had a decent shot placement and your boolit was too hard to expand and zipped right though. The deer was dead and didn't know it, ran, and you had to trail it. I want to make a soft boolit so it expands,shocks, and exerts all its energy into the animal trying to knock it off its feet. I've done it dozens of times with a core loct on broadside shots with nothing hit but ribs in and out. I'm going to have to do some soft cast testings.

  16. #16
    Boolit Grand Master GhostHawk's Avatar
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    A How stout is your load?

    B How good is your lube?

    C How good is your gas check?

    In all honesty I have not hunted with mine, yet.

    But I have cast them pretty soft.
    How well they do is going to depend on the variables.

    But considering you have a gas check they could IMO be pretty soft.

  17. #17
    Boolit Grand Master Tripplebeards's Avatar
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    Powder coated and hornady gas checked. I'm using 23.8 gr of w296 with my devastators and haven't chronied them yet. Getting 2.3" groups at a 100 yards. Im Using 50/50 plus pewter with a BH of 10.5 and retained 125 gr of boolit with almost .8" of expansion on a water jug test. I found it in the 4th jug. I'm going to try less powder and see if I can tighten up my groups. I have to seat the 310's short or they won't feed in my 77/44 so 21-21.5gr if h110 is all I get get in my case.

    I haven't harvested anything with mine either so I need to get it out of my system this fall. Might have to do some varmint and predator hunting with them soon. I sighted it In Last week with the stout devastators and shot less than a half inch away from a 1" bullseye on both sided of it at a 100 yards so I'm ready to go. Just wanted try some 310's.

    I sorted 10 lbs of 50/50 w/pewter in one grain increments today and PC'd. I made up a good 40 lbs of wqcoww PC and GC last year before I realized I needed something softer.

    Last edited by Tripplebeards; 06-07-2018 at 10:13 PM.

  18. #18
    Boolit Grand Master Tripplebeards's Avatar
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    Has anyone ever casted a 310 out of pure or close to pure, say 5 to 7 BH and PC'd and GC it and tried it for hunting? I casted devastators at 7.5 BH and shot them at 1575fps and ended up with a little less than a third of its original weight and not a lot of penatration in my water jug testing. I'm wondering since the 310 is solid and not a hp that the softer alloy would make a huge mushroom? I had no leading with the 7.5 BH and accuracy was good so it must not have slumped.

  19. #19
    Boolit Buddy Fenring's Avatar
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    I cast my 310 Lee out of plain air cooled COWW's and run them at 1500fps from my Ruger 96/44 for hogs. On larger hogs around 100lbs they will sometimes stay inside with side on shots and end up under the opposite side skin, expanded.

  20. #20
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    Tripplebeards,

    I feel your pain. All these posters telling you that your bullet has a meplat as wide as a drum lid, or that your boolit is already the same diameter as an expanded 6.5 creedmore, or that you should worry more about your accuracy than expansion. They just don't understand your question. You want to know the OPTIMUM hardness for bang flop kills on any size deer at any range. After years of lurking on this board and asking many questions just like yours I learned the answer. You want your boolit to be 9.83 bhn +- .03 Anything softer is likely to bounce clean off, and any harder will zip right through like a sharpened pencil. No need for you to listen to all these posters with decades of experience. You go dude.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check