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Thread: PCP vs BRAKE BARREL

  1. #21
    Boolit Master GhostHawk's Avatar
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    Fly, was in basement yesterday, so I grabbed my digital scale and some of those .22 round balls.

    Individuals varied from 15 gr to 17 gr.

    10 counted out into the scale pan weighed 173 grains for a 17.3 gr average.
    I was surprised to see they weighed more than my 14.3 gr CPHP's.

    I guess I am middle of the road middle class where it comes to airguns.
    I have lots of them in the 150 to 200$ range, couple of cheap ones, and one that sells for 300$.

    I doubt I'd ever spend 600$ for an air gun. I just don't take it that serious. Others do, their choice.
    No judgement implied or otherwise. Your money, your time, you decide.

  2. #22
    Boolit Master
    idahoron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fly View Post

    Ron I,m the Guy that
    named your black powder gun Hot Rod Renegade. You helped me with my Lyman GPH. No I did not mean to come across in a bad way.
    But I would have a hard time paying that much for a springer. Heck I just have a Gamo .22 Swarm but at 50 yards it stacks them in there.

    But I,m thinking the Gauntlet in .22. They say there very accurate but that's on whole for now.

    Fly
    I remembered who you were. I understand it is crazy expensive but in my opinion it is an excellent value.

  3. #23
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    I Paid or I should say Traded for my recent acquisition a HW35E. I have $60 in the gun. New ones are @495.00

    Both of mine are 40 years old next year so they will last a lifetime and as such should be considered an investment. As long as you can take care of them. Mine look new and they live in a safe when not in use just like my firearms, instead of in a closet collecting dust and dirt.

    I paid $400 for my R1 at a gun show. It was near new because the previous owner was feeble and couldn't cock the thing.

    It all comes down to what YOU think something is going to be worth to YOU.
    Keep in mind that good quality airguns have resale value as well. I could easily get $400 out of either one of my HW35's as they are popular airguns with a reputation of being lifetime guns. As such they hold their value and both are now worth twice what their original cost was.

    I probably won't be selling any of mine for a while yet so don't ask.

    My dad always said "pay a little more and get a lot more." I revised his statement to read,,,

    "Buy the best, only cry once."

    AS far as I can see you only need to adjust your expectations to reflect a desire for a higher level of toys.

    Randy
    "It's not how well you do what you know how to do,,,It's how well you do what you DON'T know how to do!"
    www.buchananprecisionmachine.com

  4. #24
    Boolit Master
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    Great read W.R & well said. One thing into todays world is the price of air rifles coming down.CNC machining & CMM QC control.
    I,m still very new to the Air rifles of today. I go back to the early pumps & springers. So I,m still investigating all that,s out there.
    I know this Gamo Swarm .22 drives nails & is very powerful for a springer. I,m still mostly a black powder guy, but having fun
    with the air rifle thing.
    Fly

  5. #25
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fly View Post

    I,m still mostly a black powder guy, but having fun
    with the air rifle thing.
    Fly
    I got to admit now that I am shooting an air rifle I am shooting my black powder guns a lot less.

  6. #26
    Boolit Master
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    Ron we are like big kids with to many toys to play with (wink). No I most likely will get a PCP & get one of those cheap china
    compressors. There is a show in Dallas Tx in a week or so, & I plan to drive down & look whats out there. I must keep this
    from my wife as you must know why.

    Fly

  7. #27
    Boolit Master BigAl52's Avatar
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    Idahoron
    When shooting your springer are you changing the hold of the gun from say shooting a 22 rifle? Also did you put a tuning kit in yours or are you just shooting it how it came out of the box? Thanks Al
    NRA Life Member

    Guns have two enemies Rust and Politicians

  8. #28
    Boolit Master
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    I think one of the most surprising things about airguns when I first started doing research was exactly how far this particular rabbit hole extends. There are people who pay 1 or 2 THOUSAND dollars for an air rifle. I can't see myself ever paying that much for an airgun. On the other hand airguns are easier to use in the house or backyard than a 22 is for a lot of us. So you can use it more often. In which case a nicer airgun might be appreciated and used a bit more.

    The question (in my opinion) becomes "what do you want it to do?" and like firearms, you wind up looking at a battery.

    For marksmanship training? A single stroke pneumatic will do wonders for your follow through with the same hold as a real rifle. CMP's rebuilt sporter is your best value here, and it's about a 100. But this isn't a gun for harvesting or dealing with pests.

    For power? Nothing can touch a PCP anymore BUT it means a hand pump at least and a lot of folks start lusting after air tanks and automatic compressors and the bill goes up. Your best power for money is probably with the break barrels. But they come with a couple of caveats: They will be more hold sensitive, they will be hard on a scope and they aren't always as accurate. Your entry level stuff you pay for power rather than precision.

    For trying to get a one rifle jack of all trades that will be good for marksmanship and small game and not too expensive the multi pump pneumatics are probably your best value. But they are often not as powerful as springers nor as accurate as single stroke pneumatics. Plus you have to pump 3x for each shot, more if you need the power. They'll run you 150-200.

    You start hitting issues with having one gun do it all. And if you want a gun that performs you start having to pay for it. I'm of the opinion that airguns are almost at the point where they can legitimately replace the 22's place in most people's batteries. I'm not selling my 22 but if I had no 22 or airguns, I'd spend the money on airguns. A PCP setup: 60 dollar pump, 120 dollar benjamin wildfire, 250 for a 22 cal benjamin discovery. I'd add the rebuilt CMP sporter for 100. That's ~530 bucks, it ain't chump change (to me at least). But it could do almost everything I want to do at 50 yards and less. You could add 200 bucks to step up to the .25 cal PCPs and you'd really be set. By that point though, I'm definitely in the ball park of that TX200 and past the HW35 both of which will probably be more accurate than any of the guns on my list (except possibly that rebuilt CMP sporter). Those guns will also be more valuable in resale than my battery. Just the way it is.

    You want to do it all you pay for it. But my 2 cents is that if you are using air rifles weekly you'll be better off than with a gun that you use monthly. And if you would be ok paying 500 bucks for a 22, maybe consider putting that kind of money on your air rifles.
    "There are no solutions there are only tradeoffs" ~ Thomas Sowell

  9. #29
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigAl52 View Post
    Idahoron
    When shooting your springer are you changing the hold of the gun from say shooting a 22 rifle? Also did you put a tuning kit in yours or are you just shooting it how it came out of the box? Thanks Al
    I shoot my TX200 the same as I do any rifle. The only thing different is on the bench. The TX200 is accurate on the bench but if I sight it in on the bench is shoots different than with shooting sticks, or free hand, or out the truck window.
    If I sight it in with the shooting sticks it shoots like any of my 22LR guns. The bench is different and I quit using it. This is an average group shooting with sticks at 20 yards.



    This is an average group at 50 yards with sticks.



    I have taken friends that have never shot an air gun out rock chuck hunting. They had first shot kills. I had to tell them how to aim but they all shot it just fine without a special hold. But the shooting sticks seem to remove the need for a special hold.
    This first pic is my son. He is not new to Air guns but was new to the TX200.






  10. #30
    Boolit Man
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    Yippie, I'm upper class! Lol, I've paid way more for most of my airguns, than I have for my powderburners.

  11. #31
    Boolit Master BigAl52's Avatar
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    Thanks Ron I did see your targets and what you have done. Still curious if you added a tune up kit to that gun or if you are shooting it right out of the box. Al
    NRA Life Member

    Guns have two enemies Rust and Politicians

  12. #32
    Boolit Buddy
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    Nobody has mentioned the Benjamin(Crosman) Marauder multishot, or Benjamin Discovery, both start under $500, and the Discovery is under $500 with a pump. I don't own either, but they are well thought of rifles with many after market modifications available. It's the 10/22 of airguns, lol. Pyramyd Air has them in stock. My problem with spring guns, is that they are hold sensitive and "eat" scopes. The one I had was a bear to cock, and it had a vicious reverse recoil, which most scopes are not designed for. The pneumatic ones are great, but you've got several pumps per shot, and the ones I've had, have a loud clack when the pump handle closes each pump.
    Last edited by second chance; 06-12-2018 at 12:01 PM.

  13. #33
    Boolit Master
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    IMHO a good springer, like the earlier mentioned tx200 is a better made rifle then any of the Benjamin/Crossman guns. My springers are not hard to cock, very accurate, and I've had the same Hawke scopes on my TX and HWs since day one.

  14. #34
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    I see the benefit of the higher quality as being able to use them more, and as such paying a little more for a first class Springer is warranted. being able to have the thing sitting near the back door uncocked and being able to get it into action in a few seconds is what it is all about.

    When we lived in the city my first HW35 was always by the back door and it accounted for literally hundreds of MB's most of which were shot off the Cable TV wire strung over our back yard. 10 yard shots were the norm. I was used to shooting offhand and was 25 years younger so I seldom missed. If you did miss, everytime the bird saw you it was gone.

    That gun got shot about 500 times a year back then and as such it had to be of good quality or I wouldn't still have it.

    My R1 is a beast to cock, it is a .22 and it is powerful enough to take any small varmint up to a coyote. (up close) Smaller stuff farther out.

    I have hit .22 Silhouette Rams at 100 yards with it and it knocked them down. It will group the JSB Monster Pellets well and they are like 25 gr. It shoots the H&N Barakuda's well and they are 21 gr and knock the Rams down as well. It also likes JSB Exacts which are also 21 gr.

    The only issue I have is that I have not sussed out the trajectories for this gun with the different pellets. To hit past about 40 yards you have to know the elevation offsets.

    My .177's are both HW35's and they are good to 40 yards on bird sized targets. Both are super accurate.

    That said I have a new Mocking Bird on the property that the Blue Jays haven't chased off yet. it has been going off all times day and night. I got a shot on it at about 12 yards Sunday and proceeded to miss the dang thing. Now if it sees me it's gone.

    My main thrust with my recently acquired HW35E is offhand shooting at Silhouette targets as practice for Long Range Silhouette. I installed a scope on the gun and can't hit anything with it offhand now. Did better with iron sights, but the idea is to have a gun I can practice shooting LR Silhouette with.

    It fills that bill perfectly,,, as soon as I learn how to shoot it. I am running 20-40 rounds thru it each night.

    Randy
    "It's not how well you do what you know how to do,,,It's how well you do what you DON'T know how to do!"
    www.buchananprecisionmachine.com

  15. #35
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigAl52 View Post
    Thanks Ron I did see your targets and what you have done. Still curious if you added a tune up kit to that gun or if you are shooting it right out of the box. Al
    I am sorry I forgot to tell you. It is bone stock right out of the factory. The only thing I have done to it is replace the top breach seal.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check