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Thread: PCP vs BRAKE BARREL

  1. #1
    Boolit Master
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    PCP vs BRAKE BARREL

    How many here shoot pcp more than brake barrel rifles? I just bought a Gamo Swarm .22 cal. I love this rifle
    & now I,m looking down the road to a PCP. But I wonder if I buy a PCP will I still shoot my Brake Barrel much if any?

    Fly

  2. #2
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    W.R.Buchanan's Avatar
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    Kind of depends on what brand of guns you are talking about. The nicer they are the more you are likely to shoot them.

    I have 4 Weihrauchs 2 HW35's, an HW77 and a R1/HW80. I shoot all of them because each one does something different that I want. I shoot the HW35's the most as they are the easiest to cock. I shoot the R1 the least as it is way harder to cock than any of the others, but it is my go to hunting rifle.

    The problem you will run into with your PCP is either keeping a tank filled and ready to use, or having to pump it up every time you want to use it.

    With a Springer all you do is cock it and shoot.

    This is why I don't own a PCP.

    As far as accuracy you can't beat this type of accuracy. See Pic, that's 5 shots.

    Randy
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  3. #3
    Boolit Master
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    Hi Fly:

    That's a question that you can ask a hundred different guys and get a hundred different answers. I own two break barrels and recently bought my first PCP. Even though I now shoot the PCP more I still shoot both break barrels about the same as I used to.

    This is because I'm repeatedly trying to improve the performance of the break barrels either through mods or thru practice. My PCP is one of the "Budget" PCPs that I bought on sale. It's a Umarex Gauntlet. It shot well out of the box but with a few mods I've been able to get it from accurate to very-accurate without alot of effort so, this is why I shoot it just a bit more than the break barrels.

    When I bought my PCP I also bought a cheap hand pump off of Ebay for thirty-five bucks. I don't shoot all that much so I guess this is why I can let it sit for a couple of weeks at a time before topping it off. I can get well over 40 or fifty shots out of it and still keep the same velocity levels but I generally only let the pressure in the tank dip to about 2000psi before a refill. For me and my cheap little hand pump, that equates to about 100 strokes of the hand pump to get it back to 3000psi.

    Unless you have a physical impairment that would keep you from hand pumping, don't let the hand-pumping-drudgery stories of those who can afford tanks and hoses and store-bought refills keep you from giving PCPs a go. A little exercise never hurt anyone. In the end it's your choice and your decision. I own both types of air guns and enjoy shooting both as much as I can. For me the limiting factor is my work schedule, not which one I like best. It's like having a bunch of offspring/children and trying to choose which one you like best. You can't help but love em all.

    HollowPoint

  4. #4
    Boolit Master
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    No PCP's here, but do have a healthy collection of break-barrels & single-stroke pneumatics, in both rifle & pistol.

    I do keep coming back to my break-barrels because I enjoy the simple rhythm of cocking & shooting - no bolt manipulation or extra steps.

  5. #5
    Boolit Master
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    Hollow Point the Umarex Gauntlet in .22 is the rifle I,m thinking of buying. What did you do to improve the accuracy?

    Fly

  6. #6
    Boolit Master
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    I outlined what I did to my Gauntlet in one of the other threads here in the air gun part of the forum. Basically I increased the output pressure level in the regulator so that I now get more velocity out of the cheaper pellets I'm shooting. I also designed and installed a little do-hickey I call a "Flop-Stopper". On the Gauntlet the barrel really has no support except where it fits into the front of the reciever. The lack of support gave the barrel alot of up and down flex. The "Flop-Stopper" mitigates most of that up and down flop in the barrel.

    This isn't really a bad thing because if it were these guns wouldn't shoot as good as they do out of the box. I just figured that if the barrel has that much whip and it shoots good, if I stiffened the barrel a bit more it should enhance the accuracy. In my case, I think I was right cause I rarely ever miss feral pigeons at sixty yards or more. My break barrels will both do the same but those two air rifles are more like tinkering rifles right now. While one is up and shooting the other one is in pieces on my work bench.

    On the Gauntlet I recently modified the factory shroud to make it a bit more back yard friendly. This mod included replacing the factory air-splitter with a slightly larger aluminum air-splitter. I also recently 3D printed a set of peep sights for it. I keep going back and forth from a scope to a set of peep sights with it. Right now it's wearing a cheap scope I bought off of Ebay.

    So on the Gauntlet I did the shroud mod, trigger job, Flop-Stopper, regulator mod and peep sights. I know that with the written word this seems like alot of work but, it's really not. At least it wasn't for me; and if I can do it anyone can.

    Incidentally, I recently came across a new video of the latest Gauntlet offering. It's a .25 caliber.

    HollowPoint

  7. #7
    Boolit Master
    idahoron's Avatar
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    I got a Air Arms TX200. The accuracy of a PCP but the freedom of a springer.







    This group was shot at 50 yards.



    I have shot over 240 rock chucks out to 75 yards with my TX200 22 cal. They are a great gun.


  8. #8
    Boolit Master GhostHawk's Avatar
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    I have yet to fall to the allure of the dark side.

    I like knowing that if all else fails I can put meat in the pot with a round ball cast by myself (.22) and shot in any of several break barrel guns. I favor the Hatsan's myself and have both 135 QE Vortex and 95 vortex. Both of which will put that cast round ball into one ragged hole.

    Add to that a pair of Sheridan Blue Streaks and something like 5,000 pellets. Plus a pair of the Crossman 1322's with shoulder stocks.

    For those who prefer PCP, fine. Tis a wide world, room enough for all of us.
    I'll stick with old school, it has worked for me in the case of my blue streak for 45 years.
    A drop of oil every 5 years or so. Shrug. Simple. Just the way I like it.

  9. #9
    Boolit Master
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    GH how many grains does that .22 cast round ball weigh?

    Fly

  10. #10
    Boolit Master GhostHawk's Avatar
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    No idea, never weighed it. Will get back to you.

    It comes from a sharpshooter .22 mold.

    It is a touch bigger than the Crossman Premier HP's I normally shoot. Needs to be tapped into the barrel.

    Bullet fit is king.

  11. #11
    Boolit Master
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    Dang Ron I could buy two Gauntlet,s PCP for less than one Air Arms TX200 Rifle. Also what are rock chucks, are they just pest? Are they edible?
    We have nothing like those, other than prairie dogs & armadillo's.

    Fly

  12. #12
    Boolit Master
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    I agree with some of the others, I'd take the TX200 over 10 cheapos, also the good springers like Air Arms, Weirauch, RWS will serve you better, be more accurate and cheaper to operate then all but the best PCPs costing thousands. I have an HW97, HW95, and TX200 Springers and an AA S510, Daystate Wolverine, and Daystate Huntsman PCPs, but find myself using the springers more all the time.

  13. #13
    Boolit Master
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    Well I,m sure the TX200 is a very fine air rifle. But $650 or more for a springer air rifle is way more than I would
    ever pay. Air rifles are just now coming down to earth, price wise. But let,s face it, the average Joe lunch bucket
    American just can't afford that kind of cash for a air rifle. I think it is great some of you can, but I have as much fun
    with my Gamo .22 Swarm. I did not realize this hobby had upper & lower class of folks involved in this hobby.

    In the past I just bought air rifles I could afford & shot them for fun. I,m starting to wonder if I should just keep
    it that way. I just thought it may be fun hanging out with people that had the same interest. I was thinking of going
    down to Texas to check that Air gun show out, but think that may not be for me.

    Fly

  14. #14
    Boolit Master
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    Hello Fly,
    One reason I have not gotten into the PCP game is the cost - I greatly enjoy my inexpensive springer (used Diana M27) and single-stroke pneumatics (Daisy 853 rifle & 717 pistol). In stock form, none of these have values in excess of ~$250 - and all have 'favorite pellets' costing only 1 to 1.5 cents each.

    But in your original post it sounded like you had some interest in the PCP format - and what little I know of those, is that it is much more of a money ($$$) game.

    I know that I can buy an entry-level springer for $50-$100, but am much happier with a German-mfg RWS/Diana; the China-mfg springers do not do it for me. If I was to look into PCP I would expect to find a similar situation.

    Edit: Another way to say the above, is that I think a budget airgunner might be happier with a mid-line springer than a low-end PCP perhaps?
    Last edited by Kestrel4k; 06-06-2018 at 04:02 PM.

  15. #15
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    I have three genres of air rifles: the break barrel springers, the C02 Crosman rifle, and Air Arms PCP. I was NOT excited to purchase/get in to the PCP genre, but the reigning board of directors at the gun club I belong to which hosted in-door .22 rifle target shooting all of our frigid winters decided the place would no longer be allowed, from residual lead in air and settled upon stuff, to host wedding receptions, fund raising dinners, or similar. (This is for info -- not worthy of further discussion ). Anyhoos, several members from that club elected to try indoor air-rifle match shooting at a nearby range, which welcomed the activity. While most spent around (or more) than a grand, my retired income suggested a much more conservative approach, so -- from Pyramid Air -- I purchased a T200 AirArms competition .177 PCP rifle which was a "return" to them. The rifle came, looking as it had never been fired -- only "giveaway" that it was pre-owned was the box had masking tape on it, and the instruction sheet was obviously read before I got it. Wow!, does it shoot ever so much better than I can ! To answer your question re "which" gets shot the most, in terms of numbers, for match work that's up to 90 + practice shots -- generally about 125 -- each shooting eve. On the other hand, for just having fun vis critters at camp, the break action (also a .177) gets the most use. And the C02? My Crosman is $70.00 of PURE fun -- it is a repeater, and for, say, shooting Rocket Targets (they propel empty pop cans ~10-12 feet in air when hit, for a 2nd shot at the now flying pop can) which is truly incredible (but, re 2nd shot success frustrating). With my PCP, there's a LOT of pumping to do with an air pump to pre-charge it. Or, the rich guys have SCUBA tanks they have filled at a local welding supply shop. Of the three -- the break barrel is perhaps the "best" -- as all you really need is the rifle and a can of pellets...
    Good luck!
    geo

  16. #16
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    idahoron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fly View Post
    Dang Ron I could buy two Gauntlet,s PCP for less than one Air Arms TX200 Rifle. Also what are rock chucks, are they just pest? Are they edible?
    We have nothing like those, other than prairie dogs & armadillo's.

    Fly
    I am an average guy. I work in a feed mill and have no title on my coveralls. I am Joe Lunch bucket. Yes my rifle was a lot of money. After I put the scope on it I was looking right at 1000.00 and yes I would do it again. Here is the thing.
    I bought three different break barrels a winchester, a Benjamin trail NP2, and a Hatsan 125TH springer. Those three guns shot horrible. The triggers were bad, they were not accurate. And the Hatsan recoiled so bad that the scope rail came off the gun. I was buying 100 to 250 dollar guns and I was disappointed time and time again. I am not a rich guy I work 40 hours a week. But I made up my mind I needed a good air rifle. I studied it and watched many videos. I talked to guys that had them on line. I was thinking I wanted either a LGU, TX200, or a HW97. All three are I believe well made rifles. The video that made me want the TX200 was a rebuild video I will link it below. The TX200 is the easiest gun to rebuild that I have seen. You don't need a spring compressor. It is simple and easy.

    https://youtu.be/fg2U78vl67I

    Rock Chucks are a yellow bellied marmot. They are a lot like a ground hog. They can weigh up to 20 pounds. No one eats them. I have these things in my yard in town. So I decided to find out where they were coming from. I went to the neighbor farm. I asked for permission to hunt with an air rifle. He said yes and then he started telling other farmers. Next thing you know I am a hired gunner for 7 farms. I have killed 244 rock chucks with the TX200.

    I am the kind of guy that looks at the TX200 as a bargain, well worth the money. My other rifles were a complete waste of money. If I add up what the other three cost, the scopes, and mounts I am well over 700 dollars for three guns that are junk. Ya I paid 1000 for a spring gun and scope but after 2500 rounds. I have killed 244 rock chucks, at least 100 pigeons maybe 50 collard doves and about 50 squirrels. I can tell you after all that shooting it is as accurate and maybe more so than the day I got it.
    I have two confirmed kills on rock chucks at 104 yards.

    Because I have a spring I don't need a tank, I don't have to worry is I am going to run out of air. If I need to shoot a rock chuck or a dove at 70 yards, I can do it. I know that much money sounds extravagant but a guy can save and get a good one. Since I got my TX200 I don't even shoot 22 LR any more. I don't need to.

  17. #17
    Boolit Master
    idahoron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fly View Post
    Well I,m sure the TX200 is a very fine air rifle. But $650 or more for a springer air rifle is way more than I would
    ever pay. Air rifles are just now coming down to earth, price wise. But let,s face it, the average Joe lunch bucket
    American just can't afford that kind of cash for a air rifle. I think it is great some of you can, but I have as much fun
    with my Gamo .22 Swarm. I did not realize this hobby had upper & lower class of folks involved in this hobby.

    In the past I just bought air rifles I could afford & shot them for fun. I,m starting to wonder if I should just keep
    it that way. I just thought it may be fun hanging out with people that had the same interest. I was thinking of going
    down to Texas to check that Air gun show out, but think that may not be for me.

    Fly

    Again I AM Joe Lunch bucket. I have a modest house in a small town. I make an average wage for the area and I have been at the same job for 34 years. My wife has a daycare in our home for over 25 years. I don't take expensive trips. I am an average guy. But I like to buy things that are of good quality. Buying cheap stuff is buying a head ache. and nothing good ever comes at a low price. You get what you pay for.

    You say that you didn't know there was a upper and lower class of air gunner.

    This is me gunning on one of the farms. I am not a upper class person.





    This picture shows the damage that the rock chucks do.



    I had a need for a very accurate air rifle. I needed to keep these rock chucks away from my home. Killing them on the farms up the road is better than in my yard.

    In your post you make me out to be a rich guy that has expensive toys. You are wrong I am a guy that saves and gets things that are good quality, and worth my hard earned money. I work 45 to 50 hours a week in a feed mill. I don't want to waste a penny that I earn.

    I wanted a good air rifle that is dependable, accurate, and will be the kind of gun I hand down to my son some day. Most air rifles under 300 dollars are not dependable, not accurate, and they are not going to last long enough to hand down as a family heirloom.


    This is my son he is not upper class.



    This is my neighbors back yard. They are not upper class.



    This is my shooting bench at work. I shoot off my 1988 toyota pickup that I drive daily and I have owned since 1990. It has a quarter million miles on it it is not upper class.



    I looked at getting a PCP but to me those are the expensive guns. Once you get a gun then you need a pump. The pumps take a long time to fill the gun. So a guy can get a SCBA tank. Then you have to find someone to fill it. Then your always wondering will I run out if air. Or you could buy a compressor. and the cheap ones don't last as long as a green banana. The good ones cost 1500 bucks.

    If a person simply can't save up enough money to buy a quality air rifle I understand. Maybe all they want to do it pop a balloon at 20 yards. Maybe all they want to do is hit a pop can at 30 yards 3 out of 5 times. If that is the kind of shooting some guys do and they simply can not save for a better one then sticking with a lower cost gun might seem like the way to go. And for them I am sure it is the only way. But if a guy really thinks about it. Figure out what you expect out of an air rifle.

    For me I needed the best I could buy. I couldn't see me using a PCP because of cost and lack of ability to fill the tank. But I needed a gun that I could count on. Nothing I tried before I could trust.

  18. #18
    Boolit Master GARD72977's Avatar
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    I'm an above average redneck! I don't make a lot of money but my priorities are right. When I show up at the range my guns cost more than my vehicle.

    I currently shoot a 12ft lb tuned TX200 that is amazingly accurate.

    I went down the PCP path with a RAW TM1000. Shot airguns with a good friend that moved away and I lost interest and sold the RAW to buy a Dillon 1050. A few other air guns and my tank were also sold off. I have been shooting the TX a lot here lately. We live on a flat acre so I have no back stop or safe direction to put one for powder burners. I'm going to buy a metal carport and set up a proper airgun range at my house. I'm also going to buy another RAW. Really thinking about a 30 Cal this time.

    I can answer 2 questions. #1 a quality PCP will be the most accurate gun of any kind within its useful range. My RAW 177 was set up as a silhouette rifle and making hits on rams @ 45 yards was much easier than with a Springer. I have a Anschutz 1712 silhouette rifle (my avatar) the RAW was more accurate @50 yards. Both guns cost about the same completely set up.

    #2 if your Springer and a quality PCP are the same caliber you will quite shooting the Springer.
    " If you cant do it with a 308 , you dont need to do it!

  19. #19
    Boolit Master
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    Well you guys do not have to justify to me, it is your money. I guess I,m just as bad in that I have many Guns. Ron I,m the Guy that
    named your black powder gun Hot Rod Renegade. You helped me with my Lyman GPH. No I did not mean to come across in a bad way.
    But I would have a hard time paying that much for a springer. Heck I just have a Gamo .22 Swarm but at 50 yards it stacks them in there.

    But I,m thinking the Gauntlet in .22. They say there very accurate but that's on whole for now.

    Fly

  20. #20
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    I recently bought my first air gun, a Weihrauch HW95 w/scope. It isn't even broken in yet but I'm working on it. Getting comfortable with the artillery hold is taking me longer than I expected. I keep wanting to pull the butt in hard to my shoulder. Yes, it is hard(?) to cock but I can't say how hard because I have never had anything else so can't compare.

    Before I bought the HW95, I was considering a PCP. I felt sure I would have access to a compressor at the fire station. As a county commissioner, I helped get them $$ for a new 4000 psi(?) compressor when their old one wasn't up to the task any longer. So far I haven't thought too much about it since I'm having too much fun with the springer. At this point it doesn't make too much sense to spend a lot of money for limited added fun.
    John
    W.TN

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BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
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GC Gas Check