Advice on gearing up a new percussion rifle?

[Canuck Bob]

Are nipple wrenches uniform or different for every manufacturer. I realize the threads vary but what about the wrench to nipple uniformity?

Are the capper mounting tools required?

What is the best Pyrodex product for a 45 Investarm Hawken, P, RS, Select. Is Triple 7 a better alternative? I'm planning to use BP but want to experiment with subs in case of BP supply problems. The internet is full of folks concerned about continuing BP supply. Is this stuff water cleaning compatible like BP?

What are the difference between CCI #11, CCI #11 Magnum, and Rem #11 (advertised as 40% hotter than earlier versions)?

I'm going to order in some extra nipples, probably from TOTW. Factory replacements, Ampco, stainless steel, techy types like Hot Shot?

My used Deerstalker came with an aluminum ramrod, I like it. I'm thinking of picking up a metal rod for the 45. What about aluminum versus brass rods?

[Tatume]

I like a small open end wrench if one can be found that will fit into the space and give a half turn.

Capper is not required, and I don't use one.

Triple Seven cleans up quickly and easily with nothing more than cold water. My experience with Pyrodex is not so pleasant.

With real black powder extra-hot primers are not needed. Triple Seven is harder to ignite than black powder, but standard caps still suffice.

Solid aluminum, brass, and some plastic rods are good. Again, not period correct, but they won't break and cause an injury either. I usually carry my rifle with a wooden rod in place, but load it with a solid aluminum rod.

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

With that rifle i'd suggest pyrodex P

[indian joe]

Are nipple wrenches uniform or different for every manufacturer. I realize the threads vary but what about the wrench to nipple uniformity?
Get a "T" shaped rifle nipple wrench with a pick in it (uncle mikes or similar) - make sure what you get fits the nipple - (pistol ones are different)

Are the capper mounting tools required?
NO - get a piece of bridle leather and punch a dozen holes in it to hold your caps - cut the leather teardrop shape about 2'' x 3'' hang it round yr neck on a thong .

What is the best Pyrodex product for a 45 Investarm Hawken, P, RS, Select. Is Triple 7 a better alternative? I'm planning to use BP but want to experiment with subs in case of BP supply problems. The internet is full of folks concerned about continuing BP supply. Is this stuff water cleaning compatible like BP?
Forget pyrodex its a corrosion agent of the first order - if you must try a sub try the others

What are the difference between CCI #11, CCI #11 Magnum, and Rem #11 (advertised as 40% hotter than earlier versions)?
If you have choices get the caps that fit your nipple neatest - we have CCI, Remington, RWS here - they all go bang - how they fit your nipple is more important than how hot they are
I'm going to order in some extra nipples, probably from TOTW. Factory replacements, Ampco, stainless steel, techy types like Hot Shot?
Get ampco or hotshot - a couple of nipples will keep you shooting for ages
My used Deerstalker came with an aluminum ramrod, I like it. I'm thinking of picking up a metal rod for the 45. What about aluminum versus brass rods?

WEIGHT! a brass ramrod will add weight and heft up front (I use steel rods - I like the extra font end weight but my rifles are CVA 28''barrel) aluminium rods always feel like they wanna pick up grit - whatever rod you use make sure you have a muzzle protector on it so the rod cant contact the side of the bore - I make my ramrod a touch long with a short jag/rammer head and the protector button lives on the gun

[Eddie2002]

Cappers are great if you don't mind dropping caps at the firing line. I've used three different types and now carry the cap to the firing line in my hand. If you gun has a clean out screw get an extra for your possible bag. I was at a shoot and one of the shooters had the screw fall out and he lost it. I think it came loose and got blown out of the screw hole. I had a extra made out of a stainless screw in my bag that I gave him to keep him shooting.
My nipple wrench is just one of the cheap t handle ones. It does the job but a socket would do the same but wouldn't be period correct. Ram rods are what ever feels good for you, I use wood or steel with a muzzle protector.

[Canuck Bob]

Another question please. I would never reverse a bronze brush inside a cartridge barrel yet folks seem to do it regularly in muzzleloaders. Is this a trouble free habit with these guns?

[JoeJames]

I am old school, and have never used a brass brush on my TC 50 cal. grey hawk. I'd take the barrel out of the stock, and unscrew the nipple; then I used a regular steel cleaning rod slotted for patches. I'd then fill a coffee can with boiling water and a shot of dish washing liquid. Stick the breech end of the barrel into the coffee can, then stick the rod with patch into the coffee can to get it soaked good. Then use the patched rod to pump the soapy water in and out of the barrel. Do need to wear a heavy glove when holding the barrel. A few runs like that and it is clean, and hot enough to dry on its own. Then run oiled patches down it, and done.

[mooman76]

People are getting the brushes stuck all the time. It's best to use a well made brush when you do and turn it clock wise before you pull it out so the bristles aren't doing a 180. I also like to use a well used brush when I di but I don't all the time. I wrap a cleaning patch around it.

[indian joe]

I am old school, and have never used a brass brush on my TC 50 cal. grey hawk. I'd take the barrel out of the stock, and unscrew the nipple; then I used a regular steel cleaning rod slotted for patches. I'd then fill a coffee can with boiling water and a shot of dish washing liquid. Stick the breech end of the barrel into the coffee can, then stick the rod with patch into the coffee can to get it soaked good. Then use the patched rod to pump the soapy water in and out of the barrel. Do need to wear a heavy glove when holding the barrel. A few runs like that and it is clean, and hot enough to dry on its own. Then run oiled patches down it, and done.

I am older school - same system minus the hot water - room temperature water works fine - dont need the asbestos fire glove then and dont get flash rusting of the barrel while I am lookin for the oilcan - been there done the hot water thing dont like it - however the main mesage here is the chemistry! water dissolves, neutralises, flushes out, the corrosive salts of BP residue. Brushes work fine until they get stuck at the breech end of the barrel and pull the thread out of the ramrod end - not fun anymore at that point. If ya gonna use a brush make sure its worn enough/soft enough it will reverse in the bore without trouble - this is very hard on brushes too by the way - kills em quick!

[Gtek]

One positive thing about getting to be an old guy with a black powder habit and the lifelong use of tighty whities and crew socks, cycled out ones are great for patches (shotgun patches too). IMHO the risk with the brush is greater than the reward, if you must brush go a loose nylon or smaller and wrap with patches.

[indian joe]

One positive thing about getting to be an old guy with a black powder habit and the lifelong use of tighty whities and crew socks, cycled out ones are great for patches (shotgun patches too). IMHO the risk with the brush is greater than the reward, if you must brush go a loose nylon or smaller and wrap with patches.

Agree with ya - thing about brushes - dont need it so why do it - blackpowder barrels are EASY to clean - dont need to scrub the betootie out of it - but needs the water and that takes some getting used to for a smokeless shooter .

[JoeJames]

My uncle was in Korea with the 2nd Division during the bad time - fall of 1950-1951. He said they'd get a big wash pot boiling, drop a bar of GI soap in there, and then clean the fire out of their M1's in it to get all the oil off. Oil would freeze up the actions. And it was kind of cold up in Northern Korea that winter.

[Eddie2002]

The only time I've used a brush on a front stuffer is when I'm working on some rust in the barrel, even then I use a beat up brush and give it a clock wise twist to keep it threaded on the cleaning rod and keep the bristles from digging in. Hot water, some dishwashing soap, patch and a cleaning jag is all I use with a blast of Rem oil down the bore when done.

[Buzzard II]

My .02 I use a brass brush with brass wire holding the bristles. Use a good brush, don't skimp! Check to see if you have a patent breech, you may need to file down a scraper to fit if you do. RFD on this site goes into detail with great info on this subject. Nipple wrenches do come in different sizes for different shape nipples, depending on the gun. I've seen nipples with 2 flats and 4 flats. I've broken a lot of *** and good wrenches. When you find a good, strong, well fitting wrench, buy a few. Take the nipple with you when you go wrench hunting, to make sure it fits. If it's a 4 sided nipple, check out Snap-On sockets, or any good brand socket. You may have to grind the outside but they are strong. Also, ALWAYS use anti-seize on the nipple threads and clean them every time you shoot. Re-apply anti-seize too. Don't tighten the heck out of the nipple, just snug it up. I don't use a capper, I just carry a small tin of caps. I use a steel range rod with a bore protector (rod guide). I use RWS caps on my small and large nipples. I only shoot real black powder. I've been using Goex and am trying out KIK with good results. Measure the hole in a new nipple and replace it when the hole gets too large. Use a good nipple, TOTW carries a nice selection. I've had good results using stock nipples as well as the old Hot Shot. I clean the bore at home with hot water and Ivory dish soap. At the range, after shooting I clean the gun and stock with Ballistol. After cleaning, I coat the bore and the whole gun with Ballistol. No matter which ramrod you use, always use a bore guide/protector to keep the muzzle damage free. Good luck shooting!
Bob

[Canuck Bob]

Thanks, no capper, no brushes, and sticking with Goex 3F for now. Water cleanup using pump jack method (I'm a proud oilman). Dutch's 6:1 Balistol dry patch with between shot wiping. Definitely getting a bore guide. The rifle came with a short starter with a guide luckily. Going to shoot a box of .440 swaged balls to break-in the rifle, low powder saving charges and denim patch material from some newer Wrangler jeans that mysteriously shrunk a couple of sizes (maybe my rump expanded a bit too). The Investarm/ Euroarms has a patent breech and it is reported at 35-6 caliber. Going to use a bristle 30 cal brush wrapped in a patch to clean properly. I will pull the nipple to clean but have decided to ignore stuck clean-out screw, it has been soaking in oil for a week. Read a bunch of advice to make sure it is secure and leave it alone. Also read a bunch of how do I fix a broken screw posts!

Anyone see a problem with this 100 round plan?

[indian joe]

Thanks, no capper, no brushes, and sticking with Goex 3F for now. Water cleanup using pump jack method (I'm a proud oilman). Dutch's 6:1 Balistol dry patch with between shot wiping. Definitely getting a bore guide. The rifle came with a short starter with a guide luckily. Going to shoot a box of .440 swaged balls to break-in the rifle, low powder saving charges and denim patch material from some newer Wrangler jeans that mysteriously shrunk a couple of sizes (maybe my rump expanded a bit too). The Investarm/ Euroarms has a patent breech and it is reported at 35-6 caliber. Going to use a bristle 30 cal brush wrapped in a patch to clean properly. I will pull the nipple to clean but have decided to ignore stuck clean-out screw, it has been soaking in oil for a week. Read a bunch of advice to make sure it is secure and leave it alone. Also read a bunch of how do I fix a broken screw posts!

Anyone see a problem with this 100 round plan?

Dont see any problems .....but .......I HATE CLEANING BETWEEN SHOTS - I DETEST IT - never did it! - I guess I saw that as one more challenge to be overcome, and it took me a while - in the end it was my patch lube - some concoction of diswash and whatever that the guy sold me the rifle swore by - I got Sam Fadalas book somewhere in there and copied his "moose milk " lube method - just plain old cutting oil and water 1:5 - its the best range lube bar none - so I would damp the ballistol patch a little and leave the wiping out of it - if I could make that work .....other thing is denium patches might be a bit too much but you will know on the first one - if you have to bash it all the way down back off to something lighter - Drill works if you cant find pillow ticking (they about the same thick) next step thinner again is calico. I started my CVA 45's with a 440 ball and a calico patch - they loaded easy, shot nice, after about 500 would go to a ticking patch. There is nothing worse than a too tight load that you cant get all the way down onto the powder and your dry patch system will tend to exacerbate that a little. Your wiping between shots system will help to stop it happening so thats one strike agin me.

[charlie b]

Patent breech. My Lyman is around .35 in dia. I used a brush from my pack of pistol brushes. First time I used a clean rod without a handle. Chucked it in a drill on low speed and used a bunch of solvent.

Now before I shoot I wrap a patch around the now worn brush and soak it in alcohol. Then swab the patent breech area. Have not had any hangfires since I started doing that.

Triple 7. Some have had luck with it in sidehammers. I have not. Tried different caps, even musket. Hangfire was a regular thing. Then combine that with the crust ring it left and I dumped the rest of the can of powder.

And, yes, I like Pyrodex. I either use P or Select. Works very well for me and is very consistent. Yep, have to clean immediately after shooting.

Ramrod. I am a range shooter, not a hunter. I never use the ramrod that is on my rifle. I have a good one piece steel cleaning rod with brass muzzle protector that I use for cleaning and loading.

[Canuck Bob]

Well I got some interesting input from IJ and Maven that sent me looking into patch lube. I'm going to change my early plan to wet patching and learning to load from the possibles bag. I don't want hard seating issues and I'm now convinced not wiping between shots is preferred. There seems two trains of thought. Expert target shooters and the more practical we can call traditional or hunting standards. There are superb marksman in each group. I'm a hunter type even though I don't hunt. I would gladly sacrifice an inch group at 50 ms for trouble free and easy yet consistent (I despise flyers).

What appeals to me about muzzleloading is the prevalence and culture of offhand shooting largely gone from the centerfire world dominated by group shooting from a bench. We used to say you can't take your bench hunting. Youtube is full of varminters and longrange hunters who do take their bench, calculators, rangefinders, and a suitcase of gadgets. They are welcome to it but it isn't my thing.

I'm now worried I'll end up taking a larger and larger heap of muzzleloading gadgets and goop to the range. My name is Bob and I'm a shooting gadget addict!

[Maven]

Bob, Rather than become a "gadget addict," and try to figure out what stuff you need to take with you while loading from a bag/pouch, I've come up with a checklist, which I'll attach to this post. Feel free to modify it (or ignore it, LOL) to suit: See pdf below.

[Canuck Bob]

Perfect Maven, already printed and it finalized my shopping list. Much appreciated.