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Thread: Is modern 44-40 smokeless shootable in an original 1873?

  1. #21
    If just bent in, yes, that will work. I use something round, like a pen. If they are crushed, no way, jose.

  2. #22
    Boolit Buddy Kev18's Avatar
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    Il give it a try I guess. I crushed a couple new winchester cases while reloading. I also have about 100 old Dominion/ CIL vintage brass.

  3. #23
    Boolit Master Texas by God's Avatar
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    If they have a crease- they're history.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

  4. #24
    Boolit Master Outpost75's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Texas by God View Post
    If they have a crease- they're history.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk
    Agree 100%, but some cowboys are slow learners who must urinate on the electric fence just once to reinforce tbe lesson and believe in those invisible little electrons...
    The ENEMY is listening.
    HE wants to know what YOU know.
    Keep it to yourself.

  5. #25
    Boolit Buddy Kev18's Avatar
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    Posted a video shooting the rifle.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y99MywqBp54

  6. #26
    Boolit Buddy Savvy Jack's Avatar
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    I just received my new mold from Accurate Molds yesterday. I loaded up a handful and plan on shooting them the first chance I get. I hope they perform well enough to use. I designed the 43-208A after an original slightly heeled bullet. The reason I went ahead with the design was to solve four common problems.

    1. Over working the thin wall brass with full resize dies and using .430 lead bullets...I hate the Lee FCD
    2. Bullet Bulging of the brass from seating bullets crooked.
    3. Being able to finger seat a .427 bullet.
    4. Heeled to help prevent telescoping when using pistol powders

    I used an RCBS Cowboy resize die, .427 expander plug in the expander die (or Lyman 310 hand tool expander die with .427 plug) and the RCBS Cowboy bullet seating die roll crimp (first step) feature.

    Heeled driving band is .430 while the rest is .427

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Outpost75's 43-200Q in comparrison with an original WRA headstamp bullet and the early unheadstamped heeled bullet


    Click image for larger version. 

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    Accurate Mold 43-208A


    Click image for larger version. 

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    Left - 43-208A heeled bullet with .427 shank and .430 heeled driving band (actually resized to .429 with lube sizer)
    Center - Early unheadstamped pulled bullet
    Right - Ideal 42499 Hollow Points .427

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Loaded up and ready for the range. Five each for the rifle and five each for the revolver using Reloder 7. Use published loads with old guns. Using soft lead will expand the lead to fill the rifling grooves but can also increase chamber pressures in tight Bores.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    DO NOT USE over 24gr of Reloder 7 in that Original Winchester!!!!! This load is for my Marlin 1894CB

    Failure to pay attention to the seating depth step, will result in crushed cases.

    But like I said, I have yet to shoot this design so I do not know how it will perform. Eventually I will also shoot black powder loads to see how they perform.


    https://www.44winchestercenterfirecartridges.com/
    Last edited by Savvy Jack; 06-10-2018 at 05:08 PM.

  7. #27
    Boolit Buddy Savvy Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kev18 View Post

    Posted a video shooting the rifle.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y99MywqBp54
    That is sharp!!!

    Kev, can I use that photo on the 44 website?

  8. #28
    Boolit Buddy Savvy Jack's Avatar
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    I forgot to add, here is a list of Accurate's 44-40 bullet molds

    https://www.44winchestercenterfireca...f-bullet-molds

    Based off of memory, never a good thing for me, I think the first one designed by one of the three aforementioned is the 43-200L. I will update this list as I can confirm the information.

    43-200L -
    43-200Q (Heeled) - by Ed Harris, for rifles with large large groove diameters and small chambers
    43-200QL (Heeled)- by Ed Harris, aka Outpost75, same as 43-200Q but with large lube groove for black powder
    43-205C - Large lube groove for Black Powder
    43-205D -
    43-205DT -
    43-205M -
    43-208A (Heeled) - by Bryan Austin aka Savvy Jack, replicates a late 1870's W.R.A. dissected bullet but sized up a little.
    43-210B - by aka Fairshake aka Cajun Shooter, same profile as the Lyman 427098.
    43-210G -
    43-215C - by John Kort aka w44wcf aka w30wcf, replicates the 427098 but adds a large lube groove for black powder, crimp groove
    43-215CB -
    43-220C -
    43-225D - Ed Harris, aka Outpost75 (44 Magnum Frame 44-40 Revolvers)
    43-230E -
    43-230EB -
    43-230G - Ed Harris, aka Outpost75
    Last edited by Savvy Jack; 06-10-2018 at 07:32 PM.

  9. #29
    Boolit Buddy Kev18's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Savvy Jack View Post
    That is sharp!!!

    Kev, can I use that photo on the 44 website?
    Feel free to do what you want! Send me the link too ! And if anyone asks. The skull is black bear, and the two jaws are Buffalo.

  10. #30
    Boolit Buddy Kev18's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Savvy Jack View Post
    I forgot to add, here is a list of Accurate's 44-40 bullet molds

    https://www.44winchestercenterfireca...f-bullet-molds

    Based off of memory, never a good thing for me, I think the first one designed by one of the three aforementioned is the 43-200L. I will update this list as I can confirm the information.

    43-200L -
    43-200Q (Heeled) - by Ed Harris, for rifles with large large groove diameters and small chambers
    43-200QL (Heeled)- by Ed Harris, aka Outpost75, same as 43-200Q but with large lube groove for black powder
    43-205C - Large lube groove for Black Powder
    43-205D -
    43-205DT -
    43-205M -
    43-208A (Heeled) - by Bryan Austin aka Savvy Jack, replicates a late 1870's W.R.A. dissected bullet but sized up a little.
    43-210B - by aka Fairshake aka Cajun Shooter, same profile as the Lyman 427098.
    43-210G -
    43-215C - by John Kort aka w44wcf aka w30wcf, replicates the 427098 but adds a large lube groove for black powder, crimp groove
    43-215CB -
    43-220C -
    43-225D - Ed Harris, aka Outpost75 (44 Magnum Frame 44-40 Revolvers)
    43-230E -
    43-230EB -
    43-230G - Ed Harris, aka Outpost75
    I got a Lee mold last weekend, just never shot it yet. Im using wheel weight lead. ANd the bullets are supposed to be .429.

  11. #31
    Boolit Buddy Savvy Jack's Avatar
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    That Lee Mold should do you fine!!

    I get great results at 100 yards with the commercially cast Magma bullets! ACME, LazerCast etc. I keep'm handy.

    One thing you can do, if you so choose, is use 23.5gr of Reloder 7 and a 240gr lead bullet (a tad more for 200gr bullets) and remain below max pressures for the old rifles. I use that load for whitetail. You can get 10% to 20% more power. 23.5gr is not quite a case capacity load (bullet does not sit on top of powder) so make sure you get a good crimp on'm. When I hunt, typically I only load up 4 or 5 anyway. If you fail to have a good crimp, the tension from the mag tube spring can cause the bullets to "telescope" down into the case and create huge problems.

    John Kort's
    https://www.44winchestercenterfireca...-Winchester-73

    Outpost75's
    https://www.44winchestercenterfireca...t-history-pt-1
    https://www.44winchestercenterfireca...t-history-pt-2
    Last edited by Savvy Jack; 06-13-2018 at 07:43 AM.

  12. #32
    Boolit Master Texas by God's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outpost75 View Post
    Agree 100%, but some cowboys are slow learners who must urinate on the electric fence just once to reinforce tbe lesson and believe in those invisible little electrons...
    Those little electrons are like killer salmon swimming upstream! One and done for this kid when my older brothers dared me to!

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check