Newbie questions

[OlympicViking]

Hi everyone!

I became interested in casting for my 686 because I’ve heard a lot of great things about the 358429 Keith SWC. I’m at a phase in my life where I enjoy the recoil of stout .357 loads, and I plan to load this bullet with H110 (I’ve got 8 lbs of it).

I got a Lee Pro 4-20 and a Lyman Cast Bullet handbook for Christmas, and I just have a few questions for you ladies & gents.

1.) I want to buy premade alloy because as a newbie I don’t feel comfortable mixing my own alloy just yet. I also haven’t been able to find a source of wheel weights. Will Lyman #2 be a good choice for the 358429? Also, should I water quench when making these, or will that make these too hard/brittle?

2.) I also just ordered a 358432 mold from Ebay. I plan to load mild .38 Spl rounds with these. What alloy would be a good choice for this bullet?

3.) I found a website that sells their alloys in either nuggets or ingots. The ingots are 5% more. Is there any reason I should pay more for ingots, or are nuggets good to go?

4.) I’m going to get a barrel slugging kit to check my groove diameter. Will a set of dial calipers be sufficient for measuring? Also, do I need to buy pin gauges to check my cylinder throats, or should I only do that if I’m seeing leading issues?

Sorry for the bombardment of questions, but thank you all in advance!

[Rcmaveric]

Don't put too much thought into actual alloy until you get some experience under your belt. I good bullet, sized correctly will allow you to go softer. Hard bullets mask poor fit. Hard bullets can also cause leading by not obturating. I have no idea whats in my alloy, but i do know the BHN though. I use 8-9 BHN in hand guns and 12 BHN in rifles. Find a lead source that is reasonable or free and make it work. As long as you can get the lead cheaper than 1.10 a pound it is cheaper than ordering off line or from here. Spending 5 bucks a pound of alloy defeats my purpose in casting. For my 357 mag i use 2400 with mag primers and the Lee-358-158 bevel base, RNFP. Works great and more accurate than my average pistol loads. Its cast from range scraps that have BHN of 10.

1) Find a cheap lead source then experiment. Lyman #2 was made popular as a general bullet alloy by Lyman to make money. Doesn't mean it is the end all be all. It means a company said something and people bought into it because it worked reasonably well. Half pure lead and half clip on wheel weights also works pretty down good as a general bullet lead. So do does range scraps. Range scraps are my favorite alloy. Water dropping is a use full tool to add BHN when needed. For your 357 Mag or 38 Special that could be debatable to water drop or not. Guess it would depend on how hard you are pushing it. From my experience at my velocities and pressures, its not needed. About the only cast bullets i have felt a need to water drop are my buckshot. I haven't water dropped anything else, haven't seen a need to. But if your gonna hit some high pressures above 38k i would keep it in mind. Match your bullet to its purpose. Are you hunting, punching paper, or dropping rams? Paper punching wont matter if the bullet is brittle or not. Rams, you need some toughness and malleability to transfer energy (if the bullet explodes all the energy is lost to the dust). For hunting i prefer the softest bullet i can get away. That's my goal in all my casting. To use the softest bullet i can make work. For wheel weights or any lead try calling recycling centers or scrap yards as they are sometimes called. That's the only place i have found that will sell me lead. Lyman 2 will work just fine not quenched. Load 10 quench and 10 air cooled and compare for the sake of science. That 358429 bullet will work in 357 Mag and 38 Special.

2) Not familiar with that bullet. As long as the weight of that bullet is between 90-170g it will work just fine for both. Use what ever alloy you can get your hands on. Water droping and hard bullets are more for high velocity, high pressure, and fast twist guns. Think 308 with its standard twist trying to hit near jacket velocity. Around 10-12 BHN will serve you in about all you do.

3) I would mine a berm for an hour and get 300 LBs of lead before i bought lead. That me. I been meaning to call some indoor ranges. Thanks for reminding me. Its your money and your lead. Do what ever your own economical situation can handle. For the sake of economics i would go with the nuggets and save 5%. Ingots and nuggets fit equally fine. Nuggets have a benefit of being easier to measure out as a pot sweetener. So say if you did get your hands on some scrap. But you notice your scraps are a little soft and tin deficient. It would be easier to measure out N amount of your #2 in nuggets to bring tin % to 1-2.

4) There are tons of tutorials on here about pound casting works in AR15s to rifles to semi auto pistols. Focus on your chamber diameter and groove diameter is a secondary consideration (different schools of thought here aswell, i prefer to size to throat diameter, but you can size to .001-.002 over groove, or hell there are a few guys that size to groove. Just pick your poison or try all three and compare). For revolvers, slug your cylinders. Then compare them, cross your fingers and hope they are the same or close enough to be inconsequential. Then go about a thousand over your largest cylinder throat. There are a few different schools of thought on sizing for revolvers. I want big enough to have constant obturation but small enough to allow me to easily chamber and remover rounds. My .357 Mag bullets are sized to .357. They fit nicely and fill the cylinder chamber. If i were to try to push the bullet with my thumb it would take a bit of thumb pressure. You may have to play with crimp to get them to chamber easily. Don't use my measurements, my .357 is the Ruger Convertible so its designed to shoot .357 Mag and 9MM Luger. It shoots both very accurately. Pin Gauges are the most accurate means of measuring cylendar throats. Not necisary though. A good set of Dial Calipers will suite 99% of what you do. I started with digital capilers but lost trust in them. I went with the dial and have never look back. They work and fill your needs.

We have no problem answering questions. You might get 50 different answers. That's the beauty of this. Sometimes there 50 different right ways. Keep it simple and don't over think it. Wait for a problem before you nuke it. Bullet hardness is one of those things your about to 50 different opinions on lol.

[Petrol & Powder]

WELCOME !

Good advice from Rcmaveric

I'll toss in here and say that while I load and shoot some .357 mag the vast majority of my 38/357 reloading is for 38 Special. A plain base bullet around 9 - 10 BHn is plenty hard and generally where you want to be, even with magnum loads. Fit is more important than hardness.
And H110 is my powder of choice for magnum loads.

I can STRONGLY recommend you read all 16 chapters of this:

http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell_Book_Contents.htm

[TaylorS]

Second P&P’s last bit whole chapter or 2 on Keith’s SWC and wadcutters in general. Great read for us newbies!


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[Mal Paso]

If your Lyman #2 supplier has pure lead too, a 50/50 mix wouldn't be bad. 2.5% antimony is closer to wheel weight alloy spoken of here and the 2.5% Tin will give you great fillout. #2 is 5% tin which many consider a waste in a lead/antimony/tin alloy. Air cool the Specials, water drop the Magnums.

[Bazoo]

Howdy and welcome from Kentucky.

Lyman 2 will be fine for your application starting out, and lots love it for everything. It will be too hard for any expansion. If you mix it 50/50 with lead, or more than 50/50 lead, you'll get some expansion at magnum velocities.

Aint nothing wrong with shooting full power 357's if thats what suits you. Doug Wesson would agree!

Dont worry about slugging your barrel, or your cylinder throats, or pin gauges to start. Size your bullets to .358, lube, load and shoot'em. If you dont have any leading, then you're cool, and only if you have a problem, start looking for a solution.

You can buy wheel weight ingots from the forum here and it'll be probably get you going cheap. Wheel weight alloy will not fill the moulds out as well because it doesnt have as much tin as it needs. You can run your mould hot, just below frosting temperature, and it'll fill out better without extra tin. But it casts a lot better with tin added. I run mostly straight wheel weights cause im poor. But I'll add some tin/pewter if Its being ornery.

I cull out the ones with obvious rounded bands, and inclusions and other defects. But the ones with a little pull hole in the base is fine to shoot except for the most accurate of applications. Basically im saying, dont be too picky or you'll never get a pile of bullets to load and shoot.

[dogmower]

one thing i got into early and don't regret is powder coating. SO much better than wax lubing.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

If your Lyman #2 supplier has pure lead too, a 50/50 mix wouldn't be bad. 2.5% antimony is closer to wheel weight alloy spoken of here and the 2.5% Tin will give you great fillout. #2 is 5% tin which many consider a waste in a lead/antimony/tin alloy. Air cool the Specials, water drop the Magnums.

Listen to Mal Paso,
what he suggests is exactly what I'd do, if I were in your shoes and had to buy alloy for casting for HOT 357 Mag ammo.
You "can" get by using softer alloys as some suggest, but accuracy will be diminished when pressures get up there with recomended loads of H110...but you may not notice poor accuracy at close range pistol shooting (like 50'), but if you like to shoot 25 yards and beyond, you will notice accuracy issues with a soft alloy (under 15Bhn).

Here is some good reading about alloys
http://www.lasc.us/CastBulletNotes.htm

[44magLeo]

I have had several revolvers over the years. I quit sizing boolits for them. I shoot as cast. Lee alox lube mixed with Johnsons liquid wax work the treat.
If a loaded cartridge won't chamber, Then I might try sizing, but haven't had to yet.
Everything shoots just fine.
Leo