Lyman Foster slug test part 1

[Blood Trail]

Part 1 of Lyman Foster slug testing. These slugs are infamous for being inaccurate due to it being undersized. To counter this, I wrapped each slug with Ballistic Products thick Mylar wrappers to snug it up in the bore for a tighter fit. I also filled the base of the slug with hot glue to keep the skirt from collapsing.

The components I used were X12X gas seals and 3/8” hard fiber wads for each load. The powders used were 800X, Herco, and IMR 4756.

I noticed that some of the hulls were difficult to extract, especially with 800X and there were signs of over pressure on the head stamp.

I concluded that I should have reduced my powder by a few grains to account for the extra weight the glue added. I also noticed that my scope mount rattled loose, too. I should of been more cautious on my crimps.

Consistent crimps are key to accuracy.

https://youtu.be/xC-ZW78oWo4


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[dsh1106]

Looking forward to part 2.

Do you think these would have the same results using a rifled barrel?

[longbow]

Yup! Those slugs cast small. My mould casts ar 0.705".

I strongly suspect that this is intentional and was originally to suit the rifling swage kit that Lyman (Ideal?) used to sell. By swaging grooves into the slug lands will raise up so bring the slug closer to bore diameter.

A fellow had one of those swages for sale a few years back and I almost wish I had bought it but didn't mostly because I think the Lyman Foster is too thin all over so even if accuracy could be obtained it still isn't a good slug design in my opinion.

The only way I got decent accuracy from my Lyman Fosters was to paper patch with brown shopping bag paper to get them to bore diameter. That worked not bad but I got fliers probably from patches hanging on or wads pushing into the cavity as I was not glue filling. Glue filled and paper patched should work reasonably well.

Your Mylar wrap is a good idea and likely going to leave the slug better than paper. From your video it looked like those slugs were flying stable as the holes looked round so that is good too.

Did you cast from soft lead or alloy?

Looking forward to Part 2 as well!

Longbow

[gpidaho]

I patched up some foster slugs using printer paper, two wraps, and filled the HB with hot glue. I haven't made it out to the range to try them yet. The county range I shoot at is way too busy weekends and holidays so I'm going to wait until things settle a bit but will post after I try them. I just purchased a new Caldwell Lead Sled that holds two 25lb. barbell weights. That should tame things a bit. Gp

[Blood Trail]

Looking forward to part 2.

Do you think these would have the same results using a rifled barrel?

Not sure, but I’ll give it a try.


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[Blood Trail]

Yup! Those slugs cast small. My mould casts ar 0.705".

I strongly suspect that this is intentional and was originally to suit the rifling swage kit that Lyman (Ideal?) used to sell. By swaging grooves into the slug lands will raise up so bring the slug closer to bore diameter.

A fellow had one of those swages for sale a few years back and I almost wish I had bought it but didn't mostly because I think the Lyman Foster is too thin all over so even if accuracy could be obtained it still isn't a good slug design in my opinion.

The only way I got decent accuracy from my Lyman Fosters was to paper patch with brown shopping bag paper to get them to bore diameter. That worked not bad but I got fliers probably from patches hanging on or wads pushing into the cavity as I was not glue filling. Glue filled and paper patched should work reasonably well.

Your Mylar wrap is a good idea and likely going to leave the slug better than paper. From your video it looked like those slugs were flying stable as the holes looked round so that is good too.

Did you cast from soft lead or alloy?

Looking forward to Part 2 as well!

Longbow

LB,

I used pure lead. No keyholes on any hole on paper. I’ve looked around for that swaging die for these with no luck so if you stumbled across one, let me know.

I called Lyman about that swage die and the lady acted like I was speaking German. She said she wasn’t aware of any accuracy issues with the slug casting under sized. I suspect she don’t know what she’s talking about.

I’m looking into getting some of those plastic balls like the Federal’s. Something that will widen that HB a little when fired.


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[Blood Trail]

I think I’ve found a possible solution to the truball ball in the hb:

http://www.plasticballs.com/nylon-plastic-balls.html


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[longbow]

Now, I would have sworn I posted this link earlier but I must not have hit "Post Quick Reply"... or it was another thread, or I am getting early dementia. Wait... what was I saying?

Anyway, on the swaging up bit... SluggerDoug posted his solution with the Lyman slug here some years ago and with pics on ShotgunWorld (scroll down):

http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=132184

I can believe this worked once the slug was bore diameter. However, even if accurate it is still a thin walled, thin nose slug cast out of soft lead so of limited use if penetration is desired.

Longbow

[GRUMPA]

I heard (read) that those were designed for the fold crimp and not the roll crimp. I watched the video earlier, and that kind of accuracy to me anyway is the opposite of blow.

I just load mine in a wad, my accuracy is far better than what I saw on the video. I hate to see minute of pie plate accuracy at 50' with anything I do. I do use a rifled barrel though, and I use B-Dot exclusively in my slug loads.

[Blood Trail]

I heard (read) that those were designed for the fold crimp and not the roll crimp. I watched the video earlier, and that kind of accuracy to me anyway is the opposite of blow.

I just load mine in a wad, my accuracy is far better than what I saw on the video. I hate to see minute of pie plate accuracy at 50' with anything I do. I do use a rifled barrel though, and I use B-Dot exclusively in my slug loads.

These where my very first time loading and shooting these slugs. Maybe I’ll run them out of a rifled barrel next time.

Unless I read the manual wrong, I believe it called to be roll crimped, but it was 2 o’clock in the morning. For sure, I’ll get more consistent crimps if I did fold’em.

This is just a baseline. Everyone’s standard of accuracy various from reloader to reloader. At 50 yards with a smoothbore, 2-3” is my standard. With any one of my rifled shotties, 2-3” at 100 yards gets the nod.

I’m curious to know what wad you use that fits in a hull without cutting petals. Care to share?


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[Blood Trail]

As for powder, I cast about 10-15 different slugs and round balls. I have 5 dedicated slug guns and they all favor their own powder, depending on the slug.

I’ve got quite a bit of ProReach that I wish there was more data on. I really like that powder from the limited amount of reloading I’ve done with it.

I use BD, Steel, 800x,and Longshot a lot. I’ve only about about 14 lbs of 4756 left so I’m trying to stretch that out.

I’ve had great results with green and red dot with BPI LBC slugs.

Seems my 20 ga slug guns likes Herco with a couple different projectiles.


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[longbow]

I'm thinking they won't do well out of rifled barrel unless they swell up evenly... and swell to fill to bore they do if cast from soft lead but, the recovered slugs I got showed that nose and skirt were tilted different on every slug I recovered and since they were recovered from deep snow it wasn't impact damage. The slugs obturated to fill the bore from as cast 0.705" to fill my Browning BPS bore.

I was told by an old timer that the secret to making those slugs shoot well was to put a copper washer under them so they had a hard face that wouldn't give so the slug would expand to fill the bore evenly. I tried that and it did not work for me. I abandoned that slug. I don't like the mould and I don't like the slug so...

My view is that if the slug is going to swell to fill the bore anyway then it may as well start out at bore diameter.

I'd get the mould machined to cast to bore diameter but I have so many other slug moulds it isn't worth the effort. In fact the Australian Denver Pile Driver is cast in a modified Lyman Foster mould bored out and beefed up. The taofledermaus video showed those to fly rather well. Lyman could learn a lesson.

Longbow

[Blood Trail]

I'm thinking they won't do well out of rifled barrel unless they swell up evenly... and swell to fill to bore they do if cast from soft lead but, the recovered slugs I got showed that nose and skirt were tilted different on every slug I recovered and since they were recovered from deep snow it wasn't impact damage. The slugs obturated to fill the bore from as cast 0.705" to fill my Browning BPS bore.

I was told by an old timer that the secret to making those slugs shoot well was to put a copper washer under them so they had a hard face that wouldn't give so the slug would expand to fill the bore evenly. I tried that and it did not work for me. I abandoned that slug. I don't like the mould and I don't like the slug so...

My view is that if the slug is going to swell to fill the bore anyway then it may as well start out at bore diameter.

I'd get the mould machined to cast to bore diameter but I have so many other slug moulds it isn't worth the effort. In fact the Australian Denver Pile Driver is cast in a modified Lyman Foster mould bored out and beefed up. The taofledermaus video showed those to fly rather well. Lyman could learn a lesson.

Longbow

Denver sent me some of his copper machined slugs. Man, those things are pretty! I annealed them to soften them up.

I was talking to Uncle D a few months back about the issue he was having with his copper swaged slugs only engraving on one side. I asked if he annealed them first and he saiid he didn’t. I bet that’s the key, although I had good groups with them.

Once he finds time, I’m sure he’ll anneal a few for giggles.


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[dsh1106]

Yup! Those slugs cast small. My mould casts ar 0.705".

I strongly suspect that this is intentional and was originally to suit the rifling swage kit that Lyman (Ideal?) used to sell. By swaging grooves into the slug lands will raise up so bring the slug closer to bore diameter.

A fellow had one of those swages for sale a few years back and I almost wish I had bought it but didn't mostly because I think the Lyman Foster is too thin all over so even if accuracy could be obtained it still isn't a good slug design in my opinion.

The only way I got decent accuracy from my Lyman Fosters was to paper patch with brown shopping bag paper to get them to bore diameter. That worked not bad but I got fliers probably from patches hanging on or wads pushing into the cavity as I was not glue filling. Glue filled and paper patched should work reasonably well.

Your Mylar wrap is a good idea and likely going to leave the slug better than paper. From your video it looked like those slugs were flying stable as the holes looked round so that is good too.

Did you cast from soft lead or alloy?

Looking forward to Part 2 as well!

Longbow

I just purchased one of these Lyman Foster style molds from Ebay, it arrived a couple days ago and finally had a chance to cast a few. My mold is really undersize if you guys are getting .7xx plus, mine drop from the mold at .689-.691ish.

I put one of these in a Fed12S3 sitting on a 20ga nitro card, it measured .735 - .737

It wouldn't push through my rifled barrel but I was able to "tap" it through.

Scott

[gpidaho]

Scott: I just put the mic to a few wads I have on hand and measured up the petal about 3/8th of an inch. My 12S3s are the Downrange substitute and measure .024 as does the WAA12 (white) The Western WT12 is .023 the WAA12114 (yellow) is .022 and the Claybuster 1100-12 (pink) is .021. You're almost there Maybe just a different wad. Good luck. Gp PS Got the 662 RB mould in. If you need a few let me know. Also an approx. BHN you need.

[gpidaho]

Just checked my Foster 12ga. slug. Sadly it measures .707 so too small and too large all from one mould. LOL Gp

[longbow]

Yup! that seems to be the standard size range. Too big for shotcup and way to small for bore. I'd be inclined to get the mould bored out to suit your barrel, either bored straight and leave a bit of a shoulder or have 3 or 4 driving bands bored to suit your barrel leaving "lube grooves".

Buckshot posted a pic of a mould he did that way with 4 bands IIRC.

Longbow

[gpidaho]

Longbow: Being pretty new to this I'll ask. Does it help any at all if you tighten the choke on a Foster slug or is it hopelessly rattling down the bore and just too late by the time it reaches the constriction? Gp

[longbow]

I honestly do not know... but I suspect the damage is done before the slug reaches the choke. My enlightenment came after recovering quite a few soft lead Lyman Fosters from deep soft snow. Every one had a different shape ~ noses were cocked slightly and skirts were uneven.

I may have posted this here or in another thread but an old timer (former poster here) told me that the secret is to use a hard wad column with a copper washer on top so the slug is forced to obturate evenly. It did not work for me. The solid wad should ensure the slug obturates as much as possible but it is still a rattle fit in hulls and bores so I find it hard to believe you can depend on the slug being dead center in the bore and swelling up to fill it evenly.

I think the whole point is that if the slug does obturate to fill the bore (which they do) then why on earth wouldn't you start out with a slug that fit the bore? Better to be slightly large and swage down that small and swell up I think.

Try paper patching but slit the paper part way like wad petals to ensure the paper opens up and releases. My paper patched Lyman Fosters worked pretty well but I still got too many fliers.

Longbow

[gpidaho]

Two wraps of copy paper got me to the right fit for a cylinder 12ga.choke. I went the other direction and glued the paper on so it wouldn't come off (maybe) and filled the HB with hot glue. Only loaded two so not much lost if nothing breaks. Haven't made it out to the range with them yet. I'm going to have to quit guessing and go shooting here soon. Gp