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Thread: bottom pour or ladle?

  1. #21
    Boolit Bub
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    Theres a place for both ways imo. Setup for both as its not costly. Ladle is slower, bottom pour is best for higher production imo
    I BELIEVE IN JOHN 3:16

  2. #22
    Boolit Master
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    Hey there BCOWANWHEELS, Help me out here please.

    I hear repeatedly how the bottom pour pot casting is faster then using a ladle. As per that statement, I'd like for someone to tell me where to go to find such a bottom pour pot.

    As I said in an earlier post, this is kind of one of those to each his/her own things, and I'm not trying to dissuade anyone from using the bottom pour, but I'd like to know what brand/name of a faster bottom pour pot is as the pots I know of are mostly in the 20 - 25lb. capacity range.

    About 4 weeks ago I cast something over 1500 bullets for the .40S&W using three - 6 cavity molds in rotation with my 40 - 45lb. open pot and a Rowell bottom pour ladle. That was something over 40lbs. of alloy used in about 3 hours.

    Yesterday, in 2 hours and 40minutes of casting I used about 38.5lbs of alloy casting with 2 - 4 cavity .44 molds for about 535 - 275/280gr bullets and 510 - 240gr. bullets.

    With the exception of when I'm casting for my 45/70 where I use single mold with a different alloy and a 4 cavity 465gr mold I cast with 2 - 3 molds in rotation.

    I 'm not trying to set any speed records, the above is simply my normal pace of casting bullets.

    So, as said, I'd really like to know the name of a typical bottom pour pot that can meet that rate of alloy use in the amount of time listed.

    And yes, I have tried a bottom pour pot so I'd be interested in a single bottom pour pot that could keep my pace without down time to allow for a new pot of alloy to come up to temp.

    Thanks!

    Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

  3. #23
    Boolit Buddy
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crusty Deary Ol'Coot View Post
    Hey there BCOWANWHEELS, Help me out here please.

    I hear repeatedly how the bottom pour pot casting is faster then using a ladle. As per that statement, I'd like for someone to tell me where to go to find such a bottom pour pot.

    As I said in an earlier post, this is kind of one of those to each his/her own things, and I'm not trying to dissuade anyone from using the bottom pour, but I'd like to know what brand/name of a faster bottom pour pot is as the pots I know of are mostly in the 20 - 25lb. capacity range.

    About 4 weeks ago I cast something over 1500 bullets for the .40S&W using three - 6 cavity molds in rotation with my 40 - 45lb. open pot and a Rowell bottom pour ladle. That was something over 40lbs. of alloy used in about 3 hours.

    Yesterday, in 2 hours and 40minutes of casting I used about 38.5lbs of alloy casting with 2 - 4 cavity .44 molds for about 535 - 275/280gr bullets and 510 - 240gr. bullets.

    With the exception of when I'm casting for my 45/70 where I use single mold with a different alloy and a 4 cavity 465gr mold I cast with 2 - 3 molds in rotation.

    I 'm not trying to set any speed records, the above is simply my normal pace of casting bullets.

    So, as said, I'd really like to know the name of a typical bottom pour pot that can meet that rate of alloy use in the amount of time listed.

    And yes, I have tried a bottom pour pot so I'd be interested in a single bottom pour pot that could keep my pace without down time to allow for a new pot of alloy to come up to temp.

    Thanks!

    Crusty Deary Ol'Coot
    Holy smokes. I don't think they make one big enough for you.

    Sent from my XT1710-02 using Tapatalk

  4. #24
    Boolit Grand Master

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    Actually running 2 pots one preheat one casting speeds things up a lot. A stand made to set one pot above the other with some clearance between and dump into the bottom pot. The top pot is melting while the lower pot is being cast from when the lower pot reaches the refill point the top is dropped to fill bottom pot and refilled with ingots. A small chunk of wax lube while dumping helps flux with little stirring until its done.

    Leave enough room between pots to pour flux and fill when starting out. A light shield to protect from spatters when filling and a cover for the top pot to speed melting

  5. #25
    Boolit Buddy
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    Seems a great idea. My limitation on that is the spousal unit feeling ignored. But this is going into practice at some point.
    Quote Originally Posted by country gent View Post
    Actually running 2 pots one preheat one casting speeds things up a lot. A stand made to set one pot above the other with some clearance between and dump into the bottom pot. The top pot is melting while the lower pot is being cast from when the lower pot reaches the refill point the top is dropped to fill bottom pot and refilled with ingots. A small chunk of wax lube while dumping helps flux with little stirring until its done.

    Leave enough room between pots to pour flux and fill when starting out. A light shield to protect from spatters when filling and a cover for the top pot to speed melting
    Sent from my XT1710-02 using Tapatalk

  6. #26
    Boolit Buddy
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    For large scale casting sessions, I use both my Lee 20lb and my much older Lee 10 lb bottom pours. I use the 20 until nearly empty, the 10 while the refilled 20 is melting, refill the 10 and keep going. I use one 4 or 6 cavity mold at a time. For me, the biggest waste of time is waiting for the pot to melt and then getting the mold back to that sweet spot temperature. Using 2 pots lets me cast until I get tired without having to wait. I also get better boolits with a consistent pace through the entire session.

    My Lee bottom pours drip occasionally. A steel condiment cup under the spout takes care of it.

  7. #27
    Boolit Master
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    I use a lee bottom pour pot also and am thinking about adding a second pot on the casting bench so you don't have down time,my pot drips very little and I over run the molds a little but I just wait till im done casting or taking a break and throw it back in the pot

  8. #28
    Boolit Mold 223Lorenzo's Avatar
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    Bottom pour, ladle's way to slow for me. Once you get the pour adjustment right you can really put some bullets out.

  9. #29
    DOR RED BEAR's Avatar
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    The only thing i don't understand a lot of people say they use a ladle for rifle and bottom pour for hand gun . Why the difference if one is better than the other then why not just use that. Some of my hand gun bullets are 2 to 3 times as heavy as my rifle bullets .

  10. #30
    Boolit Master
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    I hear they use the ladle on rifle because the pour hole is bigger and it pours faster so the nose of the boolit doesnt solidify before the pour is finished,i say bump the heat up a little on the lead or mold and itll pour fine with the bottom pour

  11. #31
    Boolit Master
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    Morning folks,

    Bright and sunny here with temps in the mid fifties at 10am. It appears the 90 to 100 degree day time temps are over for this year. I HOPE! HATE HOT WEATHER!!!!!!!

    Anyway, the pros and cons of the bottom pour versus the ladle pour will continue and the facts are simply not relevant, we like what we like.

    However, and yes I have used a bottom pour. Didn't like it. But go back and read post #22 then do a bit of math.

    Considering that both RCBS and Lyman do or at least did sell side pour ladles, and yes I used the Lyman version for quite awhile, I suspect seeing or using those ladles are what most folk base their experience/opinions on when they think/speak of ladle casting.

    Were it not for the fact that that I some how - before the days of the internet forums - got acquainted with the Rowell bottom pour ladles and even though I did not like my bottom pour experience, I might agree that ladle casting/pouring is relativity slow. NOT! Not if your set up correctly.

    In the two examples given in post #22 the finished result of bullets in hand was just short of 40lbs. in one case and exceeded that level in the other.

    Counting sprues, in both cases 2 - 20lb bottom pour pots would have been more then emptied. In fact, there would NOT have been enough alloy in the two pots to cast that quantity of bullets in the time spent.

    Rowell sells a broad range of ladle sizes. All the way from small up to and including a bottom pour ladle with two handles requiring to strong adults to pick up and pour. Been a long time since I placed my order, but I seem to recall that my ladle is the second from the bottom in size with I believe the longer available handle.

    Mine is the version that measures about 2 1/4" across by 1" deep. That is enough alloy to, providing I'm not being wasteful, pour 4 of my 465gr (total or 1860gr. PLUS sprues) 45/70 bullets.

    I always start the alloy flowing from the ladle BEFORE moving the stream over the first mold cavity, so if I'm pouring to rapidly, I may need to go back for a second dip to fill the fourth cavity. It happens from time to time.

    The secret to maintaining my rate of casting is the 40 - 45lb open pot over the OLD Coleman gas stove. This combination allows me to add 3 1/2lb. ingots of fresh allow as needed as well as every so often adding the sprues back to the pot, All while continuing to cast with only short breaks as needed to flux the pot.

    So, as stated, we like what we like and I'm surely NOT going to change anyone's mind, but I'd still like to see the bottom pour pot that can match my old and out of date system. Two 20lb. bottom pour pots would be hard pressed to even come close while the sessions spoken of in post #22 came to a close with 20lbs. +/- of alloy still remaining in my pot and an empty fuel tank.

    Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

  12. #32
    Boolit Buddy gundownunder's Avatar
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    I have used a cast iron camp oven and gas ring, and a ladle for over ten years. The pot holds about 30 - 40 lbs of lead. My ladle is a soup ladle with a hole drilled in the bottom, so yeah, a bottom pour ladle. Using that set up, and 2 x 4 gang molds I can cast at about 700 - 900 bullets per hour for two hours before the pot is empty. So including preheat and setup time, I guess I average about 1600 bullets for 3 hours. Refill the pot and while the pot reheats I sort the last batch for defects and apply the Hightek coat to the batch before that one. I Hightek coat my bullets while I cast, so every ten minutes both molds get a 30 second rest while I swap trays in the oven. I guess if you wanted to go really psycho you could do about 3 batches in a day, but you would definitely feel it after casting and coating 4000 - 5000 bullets in one day. I did it once, gave me tennis elbow for months. These days I restrict myself to one session a day, or two if i need the extra stock on hand.
    Hard work made me what I am today,
    Broken and broke
    ******************************
    Bob

  13. #33
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    For bigger and heavier bullets and for more consistent weights I ladle pour. For pistol rounds I bottom pour.

  14. #34
    Boolit Master
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    RCBS bottom pour is tops, you can still ladle pour, you can't with the Leak-a-matic.

  15. #35
    Boolit Bub
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    I just picked up a used RCBS Pro Melt, I will be glad to move my Lee pot to backup use only. No more drips.

  16. #36
    Boolit Bub

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    I started with ladle pour and a colman stove with good results although it was slow. A year or two later stepped up to a bottom pour furnace and never looked back. Eventually purchased a second bottom pour furnace and run both at the same time. While I am casting from one the second is melting a fresh batch of ingots so I never need to stop and wait for lead to melt. This has worked for me for many years.

  17. #37
    DOR RED BEAR's Avatar
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    i would like to have two pots one for smelting and the other for casting as it is i take my lee pot apart and give it a good cleaning with a wire brush on a drill then use wet dry paper . i still kick myself our son bought us a glass top stove and i threw away a whole set of cast iron cookware. wasn't casting at the time . still looking at second hand stores and yard sales but haven't seen a good size soup pot since.

  18. #38
    Boolit Master
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    When I started bullet casting many years ago, I was on a tight budget. I did not have the camp stove, and with small children knew kitchen stove casting was out of the question. The Lee 10 pound pot seemed to be a good idea. I did not choose to use the ladle at that time because it seemed to me, it would be difficult to reach the melt when the pot started to get down to half full, but the bottom pour would keep going until near the bottom. Plus, I use the sprue tapper not the thumb bumper to cut the sprues. It was a lot easier to just hold the tapper in the hand and lift the lever with the thumb and finger and have less picking up and laying down when casting. Having space limitations, I also needed to consider wind direction and velocity so the bottom pour seemed to be more consistent in the flow temperature than waving a ladle around in the air when filling a mold. These days, I might consider a larger pot with a Rowell ladle, but that would be to feed the larger gang molds that need to be laid on a rest and the ladle moved from pot to mold and back. There is no real right or wrong method of casting. Just use what you have, or decide if the other method better suits your needs. I think too many new casters are being told what they need, instead of being asked what type of molds and casting they are doing. One size does not fit all. Enjoy the hobby and be safe.

  19. #39
    DOR RED BEAR's Avatar
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    well thanks for the encouragement Dusty. i use what i have its an old lee pot over 10 years old with a ladle . my bullets come out good and they shoot good . my brother and nephew cast with cast iron pot on wood fire in back yard. i am lucky enough to have plenty of space out of the weather. i use a garage it even stays cool well into the morning during hot days.

  20. #40
    Banned

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    I drilled the pour spout out on one of my first 2 Lee 4-20s for larger boolits. Don't remember what size bit I used, but I will soon find out, as I have another brand new 4-20 now, and am rebuilding the first 2.

    I have no trouble producing first quality boolits with my bottom pours.

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