bottom pour or ladle?

[RED BEAR]

i will start off with i do not have a bottom pour so i don't know. i see people on here say they use bottom pour for handgun but use a ladle for rifle or procession shooting. if this is true then why not just use a ladle. is a bottom pour that much easier or faster? i was considering buying a bottom pour untill i read some of these comments. is it worth while to buy a bottom pour? i really don't want to spend the money if it isn't worth it. alsohow important is a pid ? using just a pot and thermometer i havent seen where 25 or 50 degrees makes much if any diff or am i wrong? like i say never had a bottom pour so know nothing about them.

[bangerjim]

Bottom pour all the way!!!!! Pistol and rifle! Thousands of them!

I tried ladle pouring years ago and it was waaaaaaay too slow and tedious. Now I pour 5 & 6 cav molds fast and accurately - - - cranking out hundreds of boolits with each casting session. All are perfect and usable, thanks to pre-heating with an electric hot plate.

I would NEVER go back to ladle pouring even with the several 1 and 2 cav molds I have. A ladle is s-l-o-w casting! I want fast accurate quality boolits......and that is what I get with bottom pour pots from Lee.

The Lee 4-20 bottom pour pots ( I have 2 and will be buying a third one soon) are great. Ignore the moaning and groaning about leaking......those people just do not know how to use one. Never had a single leak in the many years of using them.

PID’s are just a crutch to real casting know-how and metallurgy. I do not use one....never have ...never will. I get perfect drops from the 1st one every single time......using skill and the knowledge of casting. Spend the $$ if you want. Just learn to cast 1st!

I apply and sell PID controllers in my engineering firm I own and can get them for FREE. But I do not use any of them on a simple casting pot.

Good luck.

Bangerjim

[RED BEAR]

thanks i may really consider getting a bottom pour. faster sounds better i have better than 20000 already cast and i can tell you that after about 4 to 5 hours it is not a whole lot of fun any more so that is about the limit of my casting session. i was not sure about a pid it seemed like a nice toy but was not sure. as i said earlier cant see where a small difference in temp makes much difference glad to get your input on this. as i am on a fixed income i dont have a lot of extra cash to spend. well thanks for the input.

[lightman]

I started with a ladle and moved on to a bottom pour and never looked back. Many experienced casters like to use a ladle but I considered moving to a bottom pour pot to be a step up. You can get into a Lee pot for not too big of an investment.

[RED BEAR]

yes a lee is the way i would go really can't afford any other. i know lots of people complain about lee and say the others are worth the money but you buy what you can afford. most of my hand guns recently were bought under 100 dollars i just love 32 top breaks. it is amazing how many people will stop shooting and come and check thwm out. bought some as low as 25 dollars.

[HeavyMetal]

if your using a single or two cavity mold, and only one mold, your speed is hampered by the mold.

so ladle or bottom make's no difference, with ladle pouring making better bullets!

now step up to a pair of four or six cavity molds and volume becomes an issue, with the right stuff to help the pot, you can make the same quality bullets, it just needs practice to work well.

figure your bullet needs, both now and the near future and then buy both molds and pot to fit your needs!

HM

[RED BEAR]

yes most are double cavity with a few single have one three and four cavity also multy cavity buckshot mold. this is what i am looking at is it worth the money have arthritis in my hands and the large handles on the lee 6 cavity really hurt my hands so will stick with the smaller handles. i have a couple of older lyman handles that are really small that i try to use when i can. well thanks got some thinking to do.

[Creepin]

The only thing I use a ladle for is to remove dross. It works pretty well. Bottom pour!

[kevin c]

For volume I should think a bottom pour has huge advantages, especially with gang molds of six or even eight cavities (I have the latter, and it makes emptying the pot a very quick proposition).

Another advantage is that the bottom pours I have seen all have a mold guide to rest the mold on as it is filled, while I believe you have to hold the mold in one hand in order to ladle pour with the other. Handling/holding the weight of the mold both empty and filled, all the time through and between each casting cycle, could fatigue the caster a lot faster with a big multi cavity iron or brass mold or even aluminum molds for big slugs.

I've heard that for the ultimate in consistency using a single cavity mold is the way to go. Being lighter than the gang molds and used at a slower pace, the time and fatigue differences between bottom pouring and ladle pouring may be so small that either will serve well in that situation. But for lots of blasting/plinking boolits where high consistency is not a big concern, I think bottom pour is the way to go.

[Larry Gibson]

"i see people on here say they use bottom pour for handgun but use a ladle for rifle or procession shooting."

I don't say that. I use both methods. Which I use is based solely on the alloy volume of the bullet. Most often I use a bottom pour (Lyman Mag20) for pistol/rifle bullets from 38 up to 300 gr in weight. That is with single, double and multiple cavity moulds. I use a ladle (most often a Lyman) with an enlarged spout hole with large bullets of 300+ to 500+ gr. Those moulds are mostly single cavity.

[country gent]

Like Larry all my rifle bullets (38 -45 cal and most in 1.4" length range) with a ladle normally rcbs or lyman with the spout opened up to around .205-.210 dia to improve flow. The ladle casts these big long bullets better for me with the faster flow of alloy into the mould. I want to be pouring the sprue overfill while the nose is still molten if possible. The ladle does this better for me than bottom pours. I do occasionally cast some smaller pistol bullets with a bottom pour.

Using 2 moulds at the same time really speeds things up since your filling one while the second is cooling. Things to remember doing this are 1) use moukd that cast very different bullets so when separating it easier. 2) have both moulds ready to go and well pre heated. I cast with mostly brass noulds and they hold heat better for me. I cast with 2 moulds and can make a big run of bullets in 4 hours like this.

I recently modified a rcbs ladle to a double spout matching the center line of my 2 cavity moulds. One pour 2 bullets. no cooling of alloy between the 2 pours now. faster fill of mould nad better heat transfer. it is trickier to learn to use as both spouts need to be alighned.

[RED BEAR]

i usually rest the mold on the pot while pouring to avoid fatigue. i thought i had enough cast for the summer. suprise got on a 32 kick lately and can already see they ain't gonna last.

[GhostHawk]

I had a lee drip o matic back in my younger days. Gave it away after 2 months. Was just not smart enough to be able to run it or something.

Switched to a cast iron frying pan and a ladle and stuck with it for over 3 years. Eventually tried a small lee dipper pot I found here. Last year moved up to the Lee Magnum Melter dipper pot.

I'm not in a rush, don't shoot that much, I can sit, enjoy myself while I cast.

If I get 50 to 100 made I had a good session and I'm ready to hit them with 2-3 coats of BLL and walk away.

YMMV. There is no wrong answer. There is only what works for you.

[cajun shooter]

I don't intend to get into a argument with any member on this forum but for a fellow member to say that I don't know how to use my equipment and that's the reason for problems with the Lee pot is very discourteous to say the least. I started casting in 1972 while employed in a full service gun store and the owner taught me the art of casting bullets to sell in the store.
I had 6 Saeco furnaces and several 6 cavity molds along with 4 Star's for the different bullets we were casting. I poured several thousands of bullets while employed there. I also had my own equipment for my use and I was also pouring for myself.
After several of life's problem's and selling off my equipment to pay bills, I started over with all Lee equipment including 2 of the 20 lb pots. They both failed in a short time and I purchased more Lee's only to have them do the same with one spilling the entire load of hot melted lead onto my loading bench. This all took place over 10 years ago and I now use a RCBS for pistol bullets and a Waage ladle style pot for my 45-70 bullets.
The sad thing about the internet where we may gain tons of useful information also gives us the same amount of False information that is neither true nor correct. I suggest you take time to do research that is available for all members who have enough interest to look it up. There are several postings on the pitfalls of the lee casting pots.
We have a sticky that is free for you to download and I strongly suggest you do. I printed it out and put it into a binder. It's 192 pages IIRC and worth the time. The name is From Ingot to Target. Let me know if you do it, later David

[jmort]

"There is no wrong answer. There is only what works for you."

Pretty much

[gwpercle]

I cast for decades with a Lyman ladle , read about the glories of bottom pour and bought one.
The thing I discovered is I could make a lot more second rate bullets with the bottom pour .
But I don't want a bunch of second rate bullets....I want near perfect , well filled out , all corners sharp , with a perfect base . I went back to the open top pot and Lyman ladle .
I gave the bottom pour to a fellow member who lost all his stuff in a fire and wanted it.
What I have found very helpful is a big Lee Magnum Melter , holds 20 lbs. and a new Lyman ladle with a larger bowl and longer handle. A small pot is a big hindrance , go big if you can . I don't have any big gang moulds , only 1, 2, 3 and a single 4 cavity so ladle casting isn't a problem with them.
I just prefer quality boolits over a bunch of so-so boolits.
Gary

[GhostHawk]

"I don't intend to get into a argument with any member on this forum but for a fellow member to say that I don't know how to use my equipment and that's the reason for problems with the Lee pot is very discourteous to say the least. "

Cajun if you are refering to me you misunderstood sir. Was not talking about anyone else. Was talking about myself. Sorry if I communicated that poorly.

No insult to anyone else intended or otherwise.

For me, calling a spade a spade. But I also did not have this wonderful place back then to learn and edumacate myself either.

But me and Lee Bottom Pour pots did not work, at all.

And there is a zero missing behind that 3. That should have been 30 years. Fingers get lazy somedays.

[Lloyd Smale]

I haven't used a ladle for ANY bullets for over 20 years. I cast anywhere from 500+ grain bullets to 55 grain bullets. Biggest contributor to consistent bullets is using the right temp and casting at a consistent pace that insures the mold stays at a fairly consistent temp.

[Hairy Dawg]

I started out with bottom pour about 25 years ago. I've never ladle poured. Like Lloyd, I use a pid on my pot, and thermocouple mounted into the mold to regulate my pace, and ensure that the bullets I cast today are an exact match to what I cast last year. I have developed my system of casting over many years, and I think it would be tough to switch over to use a ladle. I can imagine that someone who has cast with a ladle for many years might have a difficult time transitioning over to bottom pour, especially if you have already perfected your process. Head pressure would be significantly different.

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Red Bear,

For sure this is one of those to each his/her own things. However I tried a bottom pour and didn't like it.

Then, for a number of years used one of the Lyman ladles with the side nipple.

Then the sun came up with the Rowell bottom pour ladle!

Now, I don't hate casting, but when I cast I want to maximize the production for time spent. 3 - 4 weeks back it was casting with 3 - 6 cavity lee molds for the .40S&W. About 3 hours and over 1500 bullets.

Yesterday, about 2 hours and 40 minutes with about 38.5 LBs. of cast bullets. 21lbs. of a 275/280gr Wide flat nose .44 that I case for a son's triple four but also use in my RUGER 77/44. And, 17.5lbs of 240gr WFN also for the .44. That is about 535 of the heavier and 510 of the lighter bullets.

I was casting with 2 - 4 cavity molds made by Accurate Molds in Utah.

I use an old and much used Coleman gas stove and a 40 - 45lb. open pot which allows almost continuous casting until I run the gas tank dry. Warm up and about 3 hours of casting time.

With this heat source, I can continue to cast while adding back sprues and fresh ingots something not possible with the typical bottom pour pot.

I like molds with a minimum of 4 cavities - do have some of the smaller Lyman an RCBS molds - and the Rowell bottom pour ladle with the big pot keeps two to three molds in rotation with only the occasional break to add back metal or flux.

The only time I plan to use a single mold is when casting for my 45/70 where I am using a different alloy and a 4 cavity 465gr. mold.

As said, don't hate casting, but do want to maintain a high volume of out put for the time spent.

Crusty Deary O'Coot