My 1st. 9mm

[oldhenry]

Photos:
#1: Close up of guide with slide fully forward.
#2: Close up of guide retracted slightly to rear.
#3: Close up of slide rear edge retracted same as above.

Note gun will fire with this retraction, but will not with any more.

#4: Magazine loaded. 6Th. & 7th. round not fully positioned to rear.
#5: Round #6 forward in magazine lips after round #8 & #7 fired.
#6: Side view of #5.

[fivefang]

petrol & Powder, when it comes to shooting, HOT 9x19 I use the pistol that was designed for a hotter Ctg., the 213 Norinco is that Pistol for me, nothing else can take what that pistol digests, from a rest in my younger days I spun metal targets at 100 yd. @ Markham Park range Ft.Laud. fl.,Ya ever put a basket case Hon. S-90 together?, Fivefamg

[robertbank]

Henry the cartridge you cannot load in the mag is simply to long. If you are finding rounds won't chamber correctly. as in the slide won't fully close it may be simply a case of the cartridge coming up against the rifling.

You should not be having this much of a problems. Loading the 9MM is not difficult and the bullet design you are using is certainly one of the most reliable to feed. Get your dial caliper and set it at 1.1". Using the 125 gr. truncated bullet if the cartridge passes through it there is no earthly reason for it to not function reliably in any 9MM pistol.

Just a few things to watch for. When seating the bullet make sure yo have just enough belling to allow the bullet to seat into the case. Ensure the bullet is vertical to the case mouth. Every once in awhile I get sloppy and I end up bulging one side of the case. The result is the cartridge will not chamber. Always complete the stroke of the press. Short striking will result in varying seating depths. Make sure you are using a seating die with the right shape of seating plunger. One meant for RN bullets will give you varying OAL when you use a flat faced bullet.

That aside, stay within the parameters of a good loading manual. The 9MM, I have found performs well with lead bullets when using powders with burn rates similar to Unique and Win 231. I have a bunch of 700X I purchased during the powder shortage and it works but is smokey. I use Titegroup for my plated and jacketed rounds for competition.

Good Luck and remember don;t over think it. BTW when practicing I would not go beyond 15 yards if you are shooting double taps or practicing repaid shooting. The 9MM cartridge is a good defensive round and extremely popular among action shooting folks.

Bob

[oldhenry]

petrol & Powder, when it comes to shooting, HOT 9x19 I use the pistol that was designed for a hotter Ctg., the 213 Norinco is that Pistol for me, nothing else can take what that pistol digests, from a rest in my younger days I spun metal targets at 100 yd. @ Markham Park range Ft.Laud. fl.,Ya ever put a basket case Hon. S-90 together?, Fivefamg

No experience with a Honda S-90.......except I've always wanted one.

I'm trying a 10 step program to curb my motorcycle building habit. A fellow 6 miles South of here has a Honda Super Hawk...('69 model I think) that he wants me to restore. I'll be 79 in a month or so & find shooting is as much fun & not as expensive.

[Texas by God]

Robertbank nailed it, seat it a little deeper.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[oldhenry]

Robertbank nailed it, seat it a little deeper.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

That photo is misleading (the angle taken).
The OAL is 1.090. I've never tried anything longer then 1.1.

I know everyone is trying to help & I certainly appreciate everything.

The bullet is not against the rifling. The factory bbl. is throated & all loads passed the "plunk" test (I specifically removed the bbl. to make that test with every increase in OAL).

The bell is correct (I loaded my 1st. pistol cartridge in '60....38-40 & if you don't get the bell right on that one, you'll know it real quick)

Even though I load on a 550, I'm no speed demon & try to get a good boolit alignment every time (no bulged cases). Likewise no short stroking.

The seating stem surface is not perfect, but OAL varies no more than .002 .....if at all. I plan to customize the RN end of the Dillon seating insert.

I've settled on 4.0 of HP-38 for the last 250 that I loaded.

The disassembly of the magazine did not go as I hoped. The process outlined would work fine with the normal follower, but these magazines are made by Check Mate for Ruger & have a skirted (AKA "bull nose") follower. On a magazine with removable base, they would be a snap to remove.............the base on these is not removable. I'm in the process of contacting Check Mate to learn the secret & when I do I'll share the info. If any forum member knows the secret, I'd really appreciate the info.

One side effect of my attempt @ disassembly: apparently repeatedly depressing the follower/spring rubbed against the source of the problem & I can now load 7 in that mag. with no problem. I haven't had a chance to test it, but will do so soon.

Many thanks to everyone........I hope I didn't sound like a smart ***(donkey?).

Henry

[oldhenry]

The 2 original magazines have improved just through use. One is fully recovered. While awaiting the new mags from Ruger I loaded 100 with CCI primers & was careful to stay within the brass parameters voiced by P Flados. Of these I shot 6 strings (8 shot) from each magazine & had only one misfire (I foolishly re-cocked & fired it on the 2nd. attempt rather than removing it for inspection.

Later that day I phoned Check Mate about the correct disassembly method for their mags.
The fellow I spoke with was very nice. He didn't recommend disassembly due to possible spring injury, but told be how anyway.

The 2 photos attached tell the tale.
#1 is the follower removed: note the front skirt.
#2 shows these parts being squeezed together with my needle nose pliers. I would have never attempted this on my own, but he assured me that no harm would be done to the follower. The entire follower seems to be made of a variety of spring steel.

Removal with these parts squeezed together allowed just enough clearance for re-installing........not easy, but doable (I was successful after 7-8 attempts).

With the spring removed I couldn't find anything that would hamper proper function. In fact, the workmanship is top drawer. I did slightly smooth some contact points with 1500 (used) paper. After re-assembly I didn't note any difference. I filled it with loaded rounds overnight & the next morning it was much improved.

The 2 Ruger mags arrived yesterday & I called Ruger & paid them for the replacements....I now have 4.

Today with the 4 mags shooting identical loads: CCI primers, 4.0 HP38 BUT mixed brass. The mixed brass made all the difference. The Speer, FC, SIG, Perfecta, & Xtreme gave no problems, but the other stuff (mixed) produced many misfires......P Flados is correct.

Lesson:
#1: Use good brass
#2: It ain't the magazine

Dillon advertises a EGW chamber checker & I think I'll get one.

Henry

[P Flados]

Lesson:
#1: Use good brass

Henry

Now you have seen for yourself the difference it can make.

Reloading 9s has a reputation for being more tricky than most. Doing it with boolits makes it even worse. Starting out with "good brass" (just a few headstamps recommended as least troublesome by others) is just easier and eliminates a lot of potential confusion and/or frustration.

I think it is possible to use mixed brass ok, but it probably requires either a lots of skill & just the right equipment, or good luck that what you have just works.

Even if you can not get "mixed brass" to work, sorting brass into sizable batches is something that can be tried if you want. I will bet that most range pickup brass can be made to work. It would just require slight technique adjustments and/or different equipment (expander plug & primer tool are the most likely area of concern).

However to figure out what works for a specific brand would probably require more effort than many of us want to spend. For me it is just easier to be selective when I am picking up brass at the range. In the last year I have built up a reasable stockpile of the headstamps that work for me, about 1.5 gallons.

[Chad5005]

just bought 2 9mm to do some testing and plinking with, bought a berretta px4 storm full size and a springfield xdm fullsize,will be reloading and casting for them,have 8k once fired cases but will probably separate head stamps for testing

[dragon813gt]

but will probably separate head stamps for testing

I wouldn’t bother. You’re going to see no difference between brands. Remove any stepped cases as they’re dangerous. But besides that mixed brass is going to shoot the same as separated. I went through that testing a long time ago. Was a waste of time.

[P Flados]

I wouldn’t bother. You’re going to see no difference between brands. Remove any stepped cases as they’re dangerous. But besides that mixed brass is going to shoot the same as separated. I went through that testing a long time ago. Was a waste of time.

With J words, mixed is much less of a concern.

With Boolits, mixed brass works for some, for others it causes problems. I have allready said that some use mixed with good results. They should consider themselves either good (if they did extra effort to make mixed work) or lucky if it just happened. I challenge anyone to dispute the fact that many have reported no problems with sorted brass and real problems with random mixed.

Start with the good stuff (I recommend FC, Speer & Blazer).

After you get the good stuff working the way you want, see if other stuff works the same. If mixed works fine, great. If not, you probably saved yourself a bunch of wasted effort.

This is not hard folks. As far as I can tell, when it comes to aquiring brass either free or cheap, 9mm is the easiest. If you are desparate and can not get enough good 9mm brass, send me a PM and I can probalby get some for you. It is one of those just do it and move on kind of things.

[Walks]

GEEZ, you Guys are having the worst problems.
I've been loading 9mm for 60yrs and never have had the problems you're experiencing. The only problem I've ever had is with some Winchester small pistol primers back in 2003. Bought a sleeve of 5000 at a gun show along with 3 COWBOY SHOOTING Buddy's. We all experienced misfire's regardless of cartridge or gun. All of us had the same lot #. Called Winchester, they wanted the lot # . Offered us NOTHING BUT 10% OFF FACTORY AMMO ONLY USABLE FOR AMMO PURCHASED ACROSS A RETAIL COUNTER. They could care less. Neither Big 5 or Turners would accept the coupons.

I've never bought Winchester ammo or powder or primers since then. Even though they tend to be the cheapest AMERICAN MADE primers available.

As far as reloading 9mm ammo, I started reloading by priming U.S. Commercial 9mm brass with a LYMAN 310 Tong Tool. We reloaded 9mm only for my Uncle's S & W model 39.
The European surplus was so cheap & functioned flawlessly in the Surplus P-08's, P-38's and High Powers. Even a MAUSER 1896 BIG RED 9, for a while.

These days I still load that same LYMAN #356402, cast of LINOTYPE. Weighs 116grs, over a hot charge of BULLSEYE. I have a couple of loads using LYMAN 125gr RN & SAECO 122gr RN too.

I've a GLOCK 19 with a WOLF bbl and some old WW2 surplus guns. All of my loads work in all pistols, but I do reserve that HOT #356402 for the P-08. That was the original bullet designed for that gun.

I've had P-89's, GLOCK-17's, Beretta 92 & Cougar 8000. And at least half a dozen others. I just haven't experienced any of the problems that you guys have. Of course I size/decap off the PROGRESSIVE, clean primer pockets & prime by hand. Then PROGRESSIVE for expand, powder, bullet & crimp.

And I really don't understand the concept of "chamber checkers". I've always checked my Auto Handgun loads by dropping freshly loaded rounds into the disassembled bbl's of the handguns I intend to shoot them in. Dropping them into the chamber makes a "thunk" noise you just don't get in a chamber checker.

I do something similar with revolver rounds, I drop the rounds into the chambers of a RUGER NEW MODEL Single-Action. I listen for that thunk & spin the cylinder to check for high primers.

I think most feeding/fitting/malfunction problems go straight to loading crappy&cheap foriegn cases and poor reloading practices in using Progressive presses.

Mixing U.S. made brass has never been a problem for me. Although I prefer to keep my brass sorted by Headstamp and returned to the same box.

[dragon813gt]

With J words, mixed is much less of a concern.

With Boolits, mixed brass works for some, for others it causes problems. I have allready said that some use mixed with good results. They should consider themselves either good (if they did extra effort to make mixed work) or lucky if it just happened. I challenge anyone to dispute the fact that many have reported no problems with sorted brass and real problems with random mixed.

This is a cast bullets site. I’ve had no issues w/ mixed brass. Sorting by brand is a waste of time. As I said before I performed the test a long time ago and there was no difference. I don’t know why people have so much trouble w/ 9mm. It’s not hard to load cast bullet loads for it.

[FLINTNFIRE]

I do not sort the brass either and load on a square deal b , dont find problems with the 9mm , bell enough not to shave lead and seat depth depending on style of bullet , have not noticed any problems with any of the brass , but I am not loading it hot , shooting out of a several glocks, browning hi powers , s&w m&p shield , ruger sr9 & 9e and beretta 92fs , but to each their own , do what works for you and your pistols.

[oldhenry]

I'm convinced that different people with different loading techniques will have a different result loading different brands of brass for different pistols. I personally appreciate the fact that members of this forum helped me understand the 9mm.

I'm finding more brass that works just fine in my Ruger: Perfector & Xtreme work like a charm.....primes easily (they seat solidly), bells fine & most importantly, they feed & shoot OK. I have no idea where they are made. PMC & Fiocci also seems to work OK.

I fired 122 rounds yesterday with CCI primers & 4.0 of HP38. Only one FTF & it was one with S&B brass. All shooting was @ 15 yds.. Chest shots on my steel humanoid silhouette were good, but I need more practice for consistent head shots (I'm @ 50% now).

The 9 isn't as easy to load as the .45 ACP. The .45 ACP in my experience will work with any brand brass, all brands of primers providing the use of a RN boolit (#452374 preferred by me). The 9, however, can be conquered with proper care.

Henry

[robertbank]

Henry avoid Amerc brass in your pistols. The brass is junk, plain and simple. I have had no luck with S&B and am not surprised you had a FTF. The brass has either has extremely tight primer pockets or a military crimp. I just find they are not worth the problem loading them. Did you try firing the round again. It may have fired on the 2nd attempt if it was a high primer that caused the failure. Beyond those two I have never found and variance in results using mixed brass vs one brand over my Chronograph and I have chronoed a lot of pistol rounds. I suspect I might if I was into Olympic style shooting but my inabilities would overcome any perceived advantage of sticking to one brand vs just using mixed brass.

Take Care

Bob

[oldhenry]

Bob,
That S&B did fire on the 2nd. attempt, but this time I had enough sense to extract it for examination before that 2nd. attempt.

The primer had a very slight dent (very slight).

I reamed the PP of all but commercial US mfg. brass (with a Lyman tool that I bought in '61) + I swaged the PP lightly with my RCBS tool (circa late '70s). If anything does not feel right, I'd withdraw it from the 550 & examine (the correct angle against a proper light). If everything didn't look right, I'd seat with my RCBS priming tool until it was even with the head of the brass.

There were some other S&B rounds that did feed & ignite.

Thanks for your 9mm expertise.

Henry

[robertbank]

Henry my advice...toss the S&B in your scrap pile and when you get enough brass and spent primers sell the brass to a metal dealer. The brass has a primer crimp of sorts and when you seat a primer it will only go in so far. The light dent from your striker/firing pin results from your striker/firing pin pushing or seating the primer deeper. The cartridge will then usually go off when struck a 2nd time. The more common experience with the primers is they just jam up your gun if the primer sticks out to far. Pain in the butt really. 9MM brass should be pretty common in your part of the world. I must have 25K cases laying around here. Every trip to the range results in more accumulation. I just can't pass on a case laying on the ground. The ultimate brass rat I guess.

Take Care

Bob

[glockfan]

i don't touch S&B for 3 reasons.

1-the case is a mix of nickel and brass,not friendly to my 650
2- they are loaded hot,which is fine by me,but they're loaded with quite some discrepancy regarding the powder load.
3-the primers are kind of crimped, then seating federal small pistol is a hit or miss, most of the times primers can't be seated far enough in the primer pocket.

enough for me to avoid'em.

[winelover]

Separating 9 mm headstamps does make a difference, might not be able to tell in a pistol but you will notice the difference in POI if your shooting a carbine. For instance, I have tested FC brass with and without a cannulure. Exact same load will not print to the same area of the target.......as much as a couple of inches at 60 yards.

Winelover