My 1st. 9mm

[oldhenry]

Rick R & RJM52,
Your post + the collective info from others convinces me that my original thought on the 124gr. to be the way to go.
A friend has a 6 cav. Lee 120TC that he has offered to loan me......it'll allow me to find out if my Ruger likes the TC shape. If so I think I'll go with the Arsenal 124TC (unless the 120TC Lee wins me over).

I slugged the bbl. today & was somewhat surprised: The 3 measurements (with a micrometer)were .35540, .35540 & .35550. I had been under the impression that most of the Ruger 9s were .357. Maybe Lathesmith can come up with a .35650 or a tight .357.

I also weighed the trigger pull: it'd hold a 4.5, but not a 4.75. I disassembled & very very lightly polished the trigger stirrup (no engagement surfaces) with 1500 (worn out) paper. I also did the same to the paddle surface of the disconnector. This improved the smoothness somewhat & will now hold 4.25 but not 4.5. A slight creep remains (better than before) & I suspect the channel in the frame for the trigger stirrup. I'll just shoot it a while to see if it improves or at least develop some rub evidence.

Henry

[charlie b]

I am also a recent convert to the 9mm. I have watched bullet development over the last few years and came to the conclusion that the 9mm will do well, as well as being a little cheaper to load than my long time favorite .45 ACP (I do not cast). And if I need to buy ammo for it there is nothing cheaper than the 9mm. So, I picked up an HKVP9 and put quite a few rounds through it. Mostly 115gn ball. I use AA#7 for these. A 4" steel disk at 50yd can be hit if I do my part.

I do use it for carry and after some research picked the Hornady defense loads. Got some for my 9x18mak as well.


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[Petrol & Powder]

Rick R & RJM52,
Your post + the collective info from others convinces me that my original thought on the 124gr. to be the way to go.
A friend has a 6 cav. Lee 120TC that he has offered to loan me......it'll allow me to find out if my Ruger likes the TC shape. If so I think I'll go with the Arsenal 124TC (unless the 120TC Lee wins me over).

I slugged the bbl. today & was somewhat surprised: The 3 measurements (with a micrometer)were .35540, .35540 & .35550. I had been under the impression that most of the Ruger 9s were .357. Maybe Lathesmith can come up with a .35650 or a tight .357.

I also weighed the trigger pull: it'd hold a 4.5, but not a 4.75. I disassembled & very very lightly polished the trigger stirrup (no engagement surfaces) with 1500 (worn out) paper. I also did the same to the paddle surface of the disconnector. This improved the smoothness somewhat & will now hold 4.25 but not 4.5. A slight creep remains (better than before) & I suspect the channel in the frame for the trigger stirrup. I'll just shoot it a while to see if it improves or at least develop some rub evidence.

Henry

That's a good plan.

The 115 - 125 weight is the way to go. The 9mm achieves its performance with velocity more so than mass. Going heavier than 125 gives you more mass, more bearing surface but less velocity. I think that 10 grain spread between 115 & 125 is right where that bullet needs to be and over 100 years of empirical evidence sides with me.

The TC bullet profile works [read that as feeds] in a lot of guns AND yields a bit more bearing surface with the same weight as a RN design (a LOT like the 200 gr 45 ACP bullets that have proven so reliable and accurate).

[robertbank]

My favourite cast bullet that runs well in all my nines is the Lyamn 356402 bullet. Put 4.1 gr of 231/HP38 under that bullet and the misses are on you. I have used that combo for the last 11 years shooting IDPA and some IPSC. I load the cartridge on the short side at 1.10". If I go jacketed 4 Gr of Titegroup works and is on the warm side I should add. I use the 124 gr Montana Gold bullet.

Take Care

Bob

[Tom W.]

Ok, Oldhenry, what store did you go to? I'm about 70 miles north of you......

When I lived in Eufaula I bought some guns at a store in Albany, then they moved to a fancy building in Leesburg, I think, just before the Albany city limits. They have since closed....

I shoot the 124 gr. Lee tc boolits using carnauba red lube. All of my 9 mm pistols that I have, or had, shot them very well. I sized them to .358 and they did well, except for my newest pistol, so I went to .357 and all is well.....

[oldhenry]

robertbanks,
Thanks for the 231/HP38 load. I have a good supply of HP38.

Tom W.,
I'm a native of Columbus & The Phenix City Pawn Shop (AKA Davis Sporting Goods) was an important part of my life in the early '60s along with Richardson Home & Auto on Hamilton Rd. in Columbus.

I found the Ruger @ Barrow Automotive in Butler, GA they have the best stock I've found in GA. Bo Barrow started out in the auto parts business & had a bad gun habit. He'd set up @ the gun shows & had good prices. Eventually his gun business got larger than the auto parts business.

Shooters in Columbus has improved recently......I visit there often.

Thanks for the input.

Henry
.................................................. .................................................. .............
A real sport involves either gasoline or gun powder.......all others are just games

[Tom W.]

I lived in Eufaula, but spent several dollars at Davis Sporting Goods. I shoot a lot at Shooters, and collect a lot of once fired brass from there. I've been told about Butler, but as of yet haven't made the pilgrimage there....

[gnostic]

I load 9mm with the Lee 120 grain TC bullet sized .358 and 3.9grains of Titegroup. They go thru my CZ75B like grease through a goose. I shoot at the USPSA steel targets and I'm trying not to knock them over with one shot, as I have to walk down range and stand them back up. I aim low and frequently hit the target five times before they fall over.

[9.3X62AL]

I favor the old standard 123-125 grain bullet that the 9mm Parabellum started life with in 1902. Full-snort loadings run the 125 grain bullet at 1225-1250 FPS, which are the ballistics of the current M9 loading in use by the Armed Forces. Most European 9mm loads take this form as well.

The much-ballyhooed 147 grain "Sub-sonic" loads favored by FBI and the agencies that subscribe to their uneven expertise is essentially a magazine-fed 38 Special, and not even a +P equivalent. A 125 grain bullet running 1225-1250 FPS is a healthy mid-point (and maybe a bit more) between the 38 Special and the 357 Magnum.

My carry-gun 9mm load is the Speer 124 grain +P Gold Dot. These clock in the 1240-1265 FPS range from my SIG P-226, and about 1200-1215 from Marie's P-228. I load either a 120 grain TC casting or a JHP of 125 grains to that velocity for practice and recreation. I have zero use for the FBI-pimped sub-sonic abominations. That is a down-load to enable unskilled shooters to have a better chance of qualifying on an already-unchallenging quals course.

[Lloyd Smale]

I shoot more 9mm ammo then every other caliber combined. Its a no brainer. 3-4 grains of powder a primer and a free bullets. Just as cheap as what 22 shells go for IF you can find them. much more fun to shoot to boot.

[Petrol & Powder]

I favor the old standard 123-125 grain bullet that the 9mm Parabellum started life with in 1902. Full-snort loadings run the 125 grain bullet at 1225-1250 FPS, which are the ballistics of the current M9 loading in use by the Armed Forces. Most European 9mm loads take this form as well.

The much-ballyhooed 147 grain "Sub-sonic" loads favored by FBI and the agencies that subscribe to their uneven expertise is essentially a magazine-fed 38 Special, and not even a +P equivalent. A 125 grain bullet running 1225-1250 FPS is a healthy mid-point (and maybe a bit more) between the 38 Special and the 357 Magnum.

My carry-gun 9mm load is the Speer 124 grain +P Gold Dot. These clock in the 1240-1265 FPS range from my SIG P-226, and about 1200-1215 from Marie's P-228. I load either a 120 grain TC casting or a JHP of 125 grains to that velocity for practice and recreation. I have zero use for the FBI-pimped sub-sonic abominations. That is a down-load to enable unskilled shooters to have a better chance of qualifying on an already-unchallenging quals course.

/\ completely agree /\

The 147 grain 9mm load was designed for use in suppressed submachine guns and that is where it should stay. It was a abysmal failure on the street when fired from a handgun.

The current NATO ball ammo is very close to what the Europeans have been using for a long time. Years ago I got some Swiss Army ball ammo (not commercial) that was 124 grains and would have been considered +P by American standards; it was just regular target ammo as far as the Swiss were concerned. By the way, it was very accurate. If we switch to a HP bullet, the same 115-125 grain bullet pushed to 1200+ fps has a good track record and staying a little closer to the 125 grain end of that spectrum has merits.

I think it's worth noting that the 125 Grain HP bullet used in many of the 9mm loads is the same bullet used in some of the .357 SIG cartridges and while the .357 SIG can be pushed a little faster, the difference isn't that great when compared to +P 9mm loads.

[oldhenry]

I lived in Eufaula, but spent several dollars at Davis Sporting Goods. I shoot a lot at Shooters, and collect a lot of once fired brass from there. I've been told about Butler, but as of yet haven't made the pilgrimage there....

I've been told that he is one of the largest Browning dealer in the US. My 2 sons are shotgun shooters & back when I had a FFL they would go to Barrows to buy a new Browning shotgun for 2 reasons:
1. His prices were better than what I could get them for.
2. He has a tremendous stock & his counter men would take as many trips back to the stock room (warehouse) as it took to get a few more until "the one" with the wood that appealed to the buyer was found.

He is a distributor for Benelli (sp?) & most importantly.....he's a nice guy.

BTW: Shooters is getting out of reloading & have primers 25% off. They have plenty of Federal pistol primers & CCI rifle primers.........I just bought 25,000.

Henry

[P Flados]

Rick R & RJM52,
Your post + the collective info from others convinces me that my original thought on the 124gr. to be the way to go.
A friend has a 6 cav. Lee 120TC that he has offered to loan me......it'll allow me to find out if my Ruger likes the TC shape. If so I think I'll go with the Arsenal 124TC (unless the 120TC Lee wins me over).

I slugged the bbl. today & was somewhat surprised: The 3 measurements (with a micrometer)were .35540, .35540 & .35550. I had been under the impression that most of the Ruger 9s were .357. Maybe Lathesmith can come up with a .35650 or a tight .357.

I also weighed the trigger pull: it'd hold a 4.5, but not a 4.75. I disassembled & very very lightly polished the trigger stirrup (no engagement surfaces) with 1500 (worn out) paper. I also did the same to the paddle surface of the disconnector. This improved the smoothness somewhat & will now hold 4.25 but not 4.5. A slight creep remains (better than before) & I suspect the channel in the frame for the trigger stirrup. I'll just shoot it a while to see if it improves or at least develop some rub evidence.

Henry

My 6 cav Lee 120 is one of my newest molds.

It drops 0.356 or so and was actually too small for the intended gun (Glock) even with ASBB HF Red PC.

I eventually found a way to make them work with some effort. My biggest problems were that I needed an extra 0.001" on the boolit and the sizer die and expander were too small.

With the thickness / hardness of the 9 mm case, it just seems to size boolits down more so than most. With the high pressure, if you don't heed the old "fit is king" you are very likely to get leading. Your gun may not be happy unless the "as fired" boolit leaving the case is at least 0.001" over the bore. In the 9 mm, you find many more "boolits drop too small" complaints than you will complaints about boolits needing "too much sizing down".

With your barrel, I am confident a current run Lee 120 TC will not be "too big".

For boolits shooting, I also recommend being picky with your brass. I have much better results sticking to Blazer, Speer and Federal brass. With a mix of these three headstamps I have eliminated both the priming problems I was having and I am getting much more uniform resistance when seating boolits.

[oldhenry]

P Flados,
I really appreciate your information. My friend says his Lee 120TC boolits from COWWs size to .357 & the sizing is uniform (all sides), so from your info I deduct that the boolit size from the Lee 120TC could vary. Considering this variable I think I'll be better off with the Arsenal 124TC. With Arsenal I can stipulate the size & rule out the "luck" factor.

Your experience with mixed head stamps is valuable info.

Thanks,
Henry

[P Flados]

P Flados,
I really appreciate your information. My friend says his Lee 120TC boolits from COWWs size to .357 & the sizing is uniform (all sides), so from your info I deduct that the boolit size from the Lee 120TC could vary. Considering this variable I think I'll be better off with the Arsenal 124TC. With Arsenal I can stipulate the size & rule out the "luck" factor.

Your experience with mixed head stamps is valuable info.

Thanks,
Henry

There is still a pretty big "luck factor" in figuring out what make your gun happy. Some ae happy at 0.0005" over, some want 0.002" over.

For some folks, a 9 is no more difficult than anything else, however for many (like me) it can be a real challenge.

If you can borrow a mold ot two, it really helps to find at least one "good boolit / load combination" before you spend too much on a mold.

What are you planning for as far as lube and lead hardness?

Many find that their 9s favor at least a medium hard lead (say 14 - 18 bhn).

My only volume lead source is in the 7.5 - 9.5 bhn range. I got it to work, but it took PC plus a lot of trial and error before I found was seems to be the "perfect" diameter for both my boolit and my expander plug.

[oldhenry]

P Flados,

I jumped the gun & ordered the Arsenal 358-124-TC yesterday (I couldn't believe the $80.00 price for a 5 cav.: a good value). I told them I want the boolits to drop @ .358 with COWW. I also ordered a Star die from Lathesmith & stipulated a "tight" .357.

I'm primarily a revolver shooter & although I've been casting since '60, I've learned from this forum & have been casting 50%+50%+2 Sn for the last 6 months. A .45ACP SR1911 is my only other CF autoloader & I've been using that same alloy with it & have had good results so far. For the 9 I been thinking about using the alloy that I mined from my backstop. I shot 99% of them my self with COWW. I was thinking about adding some Sn. Not being familiar with the 9 I figure the harder alloy would be better due to the relatively higher speed.

I've been using BAC lube for everything for the past 8-10 years & have been satisfied. I thought I'd try it on the 9 & change only if there is a problem.

An excellent feature of the Ruger officer model is the throated chamber (from the factory). I had to send my 5" SR1911 to DougGuy to get it throated. So far the bbl. is a dream to clean (no cast boolits yet). I'm hoping the throated chamber will make it more forgiving.

Again: thanks for your input.

Henry

[P Flados]

A factory 9mm with a throat in the barrel.

You are way ahead on that issue.

Your diameters all sound about right and your lead sounds hard enough.

Odds are in your favor at this point.

Keep us posted on how it works out.

[oldhenry]

A factory 9mm with a throat in the barrel.

You are way ahead on that issue.

Your diameters all sound about right and your lead sounds hard enough.

Odds are in your favor at this point.

Keep us posted on how it works out.

Will do.

Thanks for your help.

Henry

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

I was recently in your situation - although I've had a little more experience with the 9mm because my brother had one for years (a Ruger P-95), and more recently, my son got one. I guess I didn't scoff at the 9. I think it depends on what you compare it too.

Standing aside a .357, .40, or .45 the 9 can be unimpressive. But I've always thought of it as a slightly beefier .380 ACP which makes the 9 look pretty decent. Except that, for whatever reason the .380 had more offerings in the sub-compact arena.

So enter some newer guns that put the 9mm up against the .380: Ruger's LC9, Sig's 938, S&W Shield, and finally . . . Kimber Micro 9. I fell in love with the Kimber and got it. It is great for EDC. And I find it very shootable, although I do get fatigue after 100 rounds but that's me.

Some things that made the 9mm the right choice for me:

I already reloaded it for my brother and son.
I didn't want .380 brass getting confused with 9mm brass in the tumbler.
9mm beats the .380 ballistically
9mm beats just about everything except .22lr for cheap/available ammo.
Finding 9mm brass at the ranges is like picking dandelions from the lawn.
9mm comes in some very small guns, not quite as small as .380s but getting close.
9mm has earned a favorable reputation for SD.

One final note: I have reached the conclusion that to seek or rely on a pistol (or any other gun) for a 1-shot stop is flat-out foolish. The problem with our obsession with stopping power is that it comes at the expense of other things that come into play in a self-defense situation. Yes indeed "use enough gun", but there are other factors that should not be neglected.

[9.3X62AL]

Well-stated, Black Jack.

One of the larger surprises we got as range instructors was the relative absence of problems that our deputies had in managing the recoil of the 45 ACP. By the end of our 2-day schools we ran to acquaint the guys and gals with their new war toys, just about everyone was able to score well with their 45s. This ran counter to The Prevailing Wisdom of gunrag writers and other fraud perps. Same story with the 9mm--and both loads in use at the time (Silvertips) were kinda strident. A few folks have had trouble with managing the 40 S&W, though. The 40 S&W (subjectively, at least) has the sharpest recoil and report of the 3 main pistol calibers my shop authorizes, and between that management issue and the higher cost of 40 S&W training ammo and war shots--the 9mm starts looking really good to the pencil-pushers and bean-counters. I am not trying to "**** with faint praise" the 9 x 19 Luger cartridge, but a shooter must be selective about the ammunition used in his or her 9mm in order to get--literally and figuratively--the best bang for the buck. I like the Speer 124 grain Gold Dot +P, which combines a modern controlled-expansion bullet with full-potential velocity levels. Any handgun carried for defensive purposes is already a pretty adulterated compromise between projectable power and portability--so carry good, capable ammo.