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Thread: First post,a bit involved Q

  1. #101
    Boolit Buddy
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    Currently negotiating for yet a Chassepot...
    Why if and when this thread will be built upon,to solve the soot issue.

  2. #102
    Boolit Man yulzari's Avatar
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    There was more than one way to obturate a Chassepot. See (German) http://dingler.culture.hu-berlin.de/...pj184/ar184013

  3. #103
    Boolit Buddy
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    Thx Yulzari.
    Youīre an absolute prince.

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    Yeah well guys,i got kind of lucky and then again not. That Chassepot i bought was one of the very few manufactured by Potts&Hunt in London alright,just..it ainīt numbers correct by any margin.
    Rifle is in very good shape. No complaints what so ever really. What doesnīt match is the actual bolt which is from a Mutzig produced gun,imperial produced such.
    Pity,and the mere idea of trying to dig up an original,for the rifle,bolt...2720 is claimed to have been produced. So..fugedabout it.
    In other words this comes down to enjoying a Chassepot in rather nice condition and end of story.

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    Indeed. Them Chassepot are marked as follows..

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    What makes this particular rifle stand out is that someoneīs been at it before me. Our laws makes for that guns produced before 1890 are permit exempt IF they donīt use a gas tight cartridge,which of course can be debated ītil hell freezes over. Point is though that THIS particular gun sports a chamber insert,one thatīs been crimped in place,which makes the rifle use 45-90 brass.
    TBH it carries logic seeing what the original Chassepot cartridge was. Ie; a 45-90,just out of paper.
    That being said i am thus giving thought to removing that insert and fab one according to the original design. Or,actually..making two of them as the one doesnīt detract from the other.
    Then just make them "floating".

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    As you guys are aware iīm a shooter first and historian second. Or put another way,what drives me is the performance possibilitys of these guns.
    Handing a 150+yr old rifle a fresh muzzle crown is therefore a given. Time takes its toll,that simple.
    Careful attention to detail does it..

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    Rather nice nick,as stated. Within the rifling looks about new. It has also come to my attention that there WERE Chassepot made different. Such with slower rate twist amongst other differences/features. I had no idea,but CERTAINLY good to know. This is one of the musketoons though,as they were referenced,why it is the regular 1:22 twist.
    Speaking of which that 1:22 figure is second hand info...i need to get around to checking it myself. Seeing the performance of these rifles when handed the fudder they crave though i donīt expect any revelations doing so.

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    In contrast to some i ALWAYS unbolt the barrel and receiver (or tail plug) as i trust my life in them threads and seeing is believing. Who ever installed that chamber insert though bolted the thing back together "dry" why it was pure HELL getting the two apart. MASSIVE doses of heat was needed..
    Indeed a smaller part of the threads had seized,which cleaned up perfectly fine on the lathe so no harm no foul.
    Had me a bit sweaty there for a moment though,have to admit.

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    So. Iīve come to adress the tech aspect of this. Closing up clearances for the bolt lug and what not.

    As iīve touched upon before my main aim this time out is to figure out why these rifles soot to the extent they do,or more to the point why i couldnīt get the grease added to react with the burn.
    Which of course leads up to that i HAVE to turn myself an insert aīla original specs. Not that itīll ever make the rifle a numbers correct "stocker" ever again,but it sure wonīt hurt any and all value of it either.

    Still got a number of complete rounds laying around one of the gun cabinets here since last time out and iīll have a sit and try to figure them out.
    Dunno if i mentioned that last time out,but we also figured out that when using jumbo straws as "cartridge" the wings of a regular musket cap can be pried ever so slightly apart to make the cap come to a stop as you install it to the cartridge. Then just superglue in place..
    Point being that this brings that the cartridge does NOT have to be filled to the brim and then some anymore to deliver resistence enough for the cartridge to go boom. Thus,you can run this way,with an otherwise completely stock Chassepot,and drop whatever you see fit or need for into the cartridge.
    Like grease cookies,wads or whatever.

    This time out also going to try a few different boolit types. Got a smaller boat load of 45 molds on the shelf...by any means,but truth be told you can never have to many.
    One iīm going to try and have delivered in the "new" LEE 459/500R. The Postell look-alike. Kind of curious as far as that...

    Then. Need to come to some sort of conclusion as far as boolit. My homebrew 459/500 RN that iīve used,aīla the government,works very well but..
    Shooting at extended ranges around here isnīt as commonplace as i could hope for,and i need to figure out what happens at medium distances at first (up to 600 meters) and beyond that as we go i guess. Range where iīm a vivid member bottoms out at 300 meters.
    Far enough to hand an idea,but not conclusive by any measure. Got a 600 meter range up the road though..for starters. Furter than that,i need to travel northbound.

    Well well. Future will tell. First up though is a thorough go through as far as the rifle itself...and am a good bit underways.
    Last edited by Racing; 01-14-2020 at 06:34 PM.

  4. #104
    Boolit Buddy
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    Oh yeah.
    Iīve got more than one bolt to use. So what iīm pondering ATM is to have a stock chamber insert with a stock bolt. Obturating rubber disc n all..
    Then the cartridge insert with a stainless steel piston up front instead of the stock "umbrella" setup where iīll be able to set headspace and what not.
    Both inserts floating as mentioned. Floating in as much that they can be removed at will,but it might none the less be an idea to glue them in place at least. Loctites cylindrical will handle that..and approx 200degC will kill the glue at any given time you want to replace the one insert with the other.
    Simple enough.

  5. #105
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    Thread revival if ever but as i saw that new thread i thought iīd update a tad.

    Weīve pushed forward. First up thereīs of course the "sleeper" Chasse in the works, which is just getting more Fīd up by the day, but secondly so a fresh take on the by now known "straw cartridges".

    We came to figure accuracy out but what we never came to solve was soot. For original rifles that is. Grease is indeed needed and it seemed it didnīt matter how we applied the stuff, with the exception of making it part of the cartridge - which we really couldnīt for powder capacities sake.
    Well.

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    What i did was cut a fresh "umbrella" and cut back on the obturator. What that did was add massive amounts of length to the thing rendering that we now basically had a cartridge shy of a 45-120 to play with. Mind you, NOT to add powder. What it did lend us though was great leeway in as far as wads, cards and what have you not.

    As we pushed on we dropped the entire "45 shell" idea for used range scrap in the form of 308Win brass. Turned a small piece of stainless to fit the bolt and then a Hornady shell holder cut to fit on the lathe.

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    Yeah, not exactly earth moving but.. you get the picture.

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    Indeed. Pouring 90-100 grains of black down there.. ample room to spare.

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    What originally started out as a dual faced project, accuracy and in turn keeping the gun permit exempt to us, came to this. We now had a non gastight cartridge (approx goes together like Lego) that saw reference at both ends. In short we now, for the first time, could play around with various loads as well as 45 cal bullet types and in turn amounts of grease, wad thickness and finally COAL to hearts desire.
    Indeed it worked.. basically as planned.

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    Yes. Cutting down regular 308 range scrap works perfectly well. The "culot" left is like 10mm long total. Weīve tried 15mm too with no ills.
    The actual seat, for lack of better words, for the jumbo sized straw used we turn to 11,40mm diameter and as the brass part of the cartridge doesnīt expand per se these pieces are in essence reusable indefinitely.

    Cartridges turn out sturdy enough that you could magazine convert one of these.. Ie; no more being delicate around them per before.

    In short? This just plain works and all it takes is a homebrew (or local machine shop) piece to replace the umbrella and a seal/obturator cut back to 10mm thickness. Then.. shorten the needle as u see fit to just reach out of the shell holder and whack the primer. Simple.
    Indeed we use 1.6mm TIG electrodes instead of the OEM steel version. Cheap n effective wile it lasts for friggin ever.

    Why? Well. These are not only plinking loads, works great as such though, but very very effective cartridges for the Chassepot that when played around with hands payback as far as accuracy capacity as well as repeatability. Imperative part here is that first powder.. then an over powder card followed by a semi liberal dab of grease. After that me personally i use a 1/8" greased wad and in turn any of the 45 cal reputable bullets turned down to 11,00mm flat for approx 65% of their length to become true bore riders.
    The making of these cartridges is very swift, very simple and basically just sans goo and what not. They just come together..
    Sure.
    You have to deprime and reprime and all of that. Then again, tell what cartridge doesnīt? However. The second main advantage here is the one of being able to fire at will for extended sessions. The use of grease in direct contact with the powder seems to be what the Dr ordered.

    That said..i STILL bring a dedicated brush with me to the range..

    The no holds one then?
    Well.
    I threw the entire book at it.

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    ...which is just for starters...
    Last edited by Racing; 11-10-2020 at 01:01 AM.

  6. #106
    Boolit Master
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    Racing,

    That’s a very clever adaptation! The use of a shell holder to hold a brass obturator is really out-of-the-box thinking!

    Thanks for posting your procedures. I don’t have a Chassepot, but the ideas are very interesting.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check