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Thread: First post,a bit involved Q

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigslug View Post
    Seems like it would be a simple matter to obtain/construct some sort of nipple/anvil that could be inserted into a percussion cap, which would then be held in place by a simple sheet of paper or foil glued in place on the inside of the cartridge/primer assembly. I'm envisioning a small aluminum tube, if such a thing exists. Once it's got a charge of compressed black in front of it, it would go nowhere. I figure your striker head would need to be somewhat smaller than the diameter of the cap, giving a really hard, indenting bash on the middle 2/3rds or so, forcing contact with whatever you've installed.

    Another option would be to fill the cap with some kind of "crunchy stuff" - if flammable, so much the better. . . just so long as it isn't bore-eroding.
    Right. Just off the phone with a local vendor and it seems all version of 6 and 9mm blanks are exempt. Net idea though in such a case would be the 9mm version as that is centerfire by design.
    Only drawback,seing what were talking,would be economics as theyre certainly more expensive then regular blackpowder primers but then again...using BP for propellant is cheap enough anyways so.
    Thinking as such...you win some you lose some.

    Ordered a couple of boxes,they come 50 a box,and will design around that. Dimensions of said cartridge is on the correct side of 11mm so..we should be good to go.
    Even for the better theres versions that hold minor amounts of smokeless,me thinking as such that smokeless present will minimize fouling.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by indian joe View Post
    You mentioned the LEE 500 above - some of the long range boys here called questions on that one for stability - since I liked the boolit I have been attempting to prove them wrong on it - not able to do that so far - in calm conditions I can get it to shoot but any amount of wind (doesnt take much) and that big pointy boolit goes haywire - seems like for me it gets out to about 400 ok but by 500 its all kaput - a few days back I tried a modification to it by turning a small flat on the front end that seemed to work - just a flat .215 across instead of the pointy nose - something to try if you get that far with this chasse project.
    Yup.
    Read about that,thx for going the extra mile! Sort of a situation to us over here are lead times involved with the more...obscure molds.
    LEE for instance is normally to be had over the counter while the more exotic RCBS,Saeco,Lyman aso are not.

    A lathe ive certainly got,a Lyman melting pot as well (cast craploads for my revolvers) so...nothings stopping me from going out on a limb as far as trying various mods to a casting mold.

    Speaking which,and about as off topic as it gets,i really enjoy shooting my 44 cal revolvers too and that there with using shrink sleeve might just be an idea to implement there as well.
    OTOH..paper cartridges works that much smoother with the revolvers.

    As were gun buffs and i happen to own the occasional odd ball oldie...



    A real scarse Freeman 44 Army. Yes,i use it.



    Guess i dont have to explain that one... LOL



    N here an 1858 born in nov of 1864 that i overhauled/restoed and use as one of my main guns for CAS.

    Guess a few pics of goodies always makes for a better day...

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Racing View Post
    Yup.
    Read about that,thx for going the extra mile! Sort of a situation to us over here are lead times involved with the more...obscure molds.
    LEE for instance is normally to be had over the counter while the more exotic RCBS,Saeco,Lyman aso are not.

    A lathe ive certainly got,a Lyman melting pot as well (cast craploads for my revolvers) so...nothings stopping me from going out on a limb as far as trying various mods to a casting mold.

    Speaking which,and about as off topic as it gets,i really enjoy shooting my 44 cal revolvers too and that there with using shrink sleeve might just be an idea to implement there as well.
    OTOH..paper cartridges works that much smoother with the revolvers.

    As were gun buffs and i happen to own the occasional odd ball oldie...



    A real scarse Freeman 44 Army. Yes,i use it.



    Guess i dont have to explain that one... LOL



    N here an 1858 born in nov of 1864 that i overhauled/restoed and use as one of my main guns for CAS.

    Guess a few pics of goodies always makes for a better day...
    1864 - you kidding! it looks like a new one ! pleased to see you use it - collector guns that dont get shot seem such a waste to me - that remmie is alive - stashed away in a collection its just a pretty piece of dead metal. I just have bread and butter stuff . I like workin on em though, its fun to bring a tired one back to life or hit center with one that somebody thinks is shot out !

  4. #64
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    ???? 1864 really? With S&W DA grips fitted to it? Typo maybe?
    You restored it to this current condition - Please tell is more, fill in the details. This is a story that needs to be told.
    Chill Wills

  5. #65
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    Sure. Looked like this when i bought it. Ugliest sights in history,but i reasoned as such that such a gun most likely had a barrel and cylinder looked after. Indeed.



    Getting rid of that fugly front sight i thought they had turned that diameter difference down,no such luck. But i cut a fresh barrel end (looks only) and went at it. Ditto for the dovetail at the rear.



    Blending the new barrel end in...and handing the piece a new crown while at it.



    Much of making the outers of it come full circle,seing how involved the design is after all,was a matter of..by hand. Finer and finer grit emory backed by a regular file.



    Stocks indeed are off of a Smith model 29 that ive had laying around for 30yrs or so. Reasoned as such that..why the hell not. TBH it makes for a profound difference in how you handle the gun.



    Then..bath time. Old fashioned style. Ie;nitrates only,which brings that gorgeous blue,at approx 360degC.



    Here fresh outta the bath. This is where polishing with 0000 steel wool and oil pays off and the rest...is history as they say. Use the gun vividly.
    Serial tells it saw light in november of 1864 i believe.
    Pulled a couple of stunts on it to secure that NOONE ever will be able to pass it off as an untouched original. Actually own half a crapload of Remmy 58s..



    For instance. Bought this "deactivated" 1858 in Britain a while back. Completely ruined in essence,drilled right through the frame and barrel,cut with a die grinder into the barrel aso aso aso.
    Well. I got it cheap,being an original,with a serial of 58 xxx...and see i had something completely different in mind.



    Reshaped the grip of it into a birdshead one..

  6. #66
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    .

    ...and made a 3,5" barreled snubbie out of it. Cool little piece that actually shoots very very well. Tight as a...just purrs as you spin that cylinder.
    T7 and a diet of 200-240 grainers make for a nice,compact little gun. A large cal and large frame piece of kit..
    Stocks of it are a little neat. Fellow countryman to me has a past as a diver. That there is "black oak". Ie;oak thats been under water for a long time...as in a LONG time.
    Its salvaged oak from one of our regal ships that the russians sank in the baltic sea back in 1723...
    Hows that for a story.. LOL

    That said.
    Back to Chassepot cartridges and bullets friends!!

  7. #67
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    That over and done with,this is a pic of the full length cartridge as itll present itself in MY gun. Ie;its all in all 18mm longer than the stocker (just a tad under 3/4").
    It does make room beyond what even i thought. I filled the thing up,leaving ample room for a boolit and i came to a halt at 140 grains worth.

    Now. That leads me to believe that a fullsize (as in 14,5mm outer) shrink sleeve cartridge for the stock thing..thats an easy 100-110 grains at least,which leaves room enough for the stock 90 grains at will AND a hefty sized grease cookie or whatever along those lines.

    In other words these are ballpark figures and hands us an idea what to expect.

  8. #68
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    Ok guys.
    So for the time being i picked up a LEE 459-405HB and cast me a couple of hundred boolits.

    From the looks of it this has turned out as thought. Need to adjust the mix used in the pot though as for some reason i get quite a few wrinkles. Antimon i guess.

    Anyways.
    What im playing around with at the moment is the use of either RWS shotgun primers (nope,no 209s) or 9mm blank cartridges by Walther.

    What im having doubts about is if the NC 9mm blanks will evacuate the chamber and barrel seing the size of them. The regular shotgun primers though,no doubt what so ever.

    The NC 9mm blanks though,as far as im concerned,might very well be the ticket that aside as they do contain a very limited (approx 5 grains) amount of smokeless.
    Idea there,i guess evident enough,is that the very minor amount of smokeless will make the main blackpowder charge burn way cleaner.
    Yay or nay...you guys tell me.

  9. #69
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    Alright. So this is what ive been up to. Them there are the two primers ive noodled around with. First up a RWS one for shotgun shells and in turn a 9mm rimmed cartridge for blank firing revolvers.



    Both of them sport an anvil within,which is the main trick here as far as im concerned. The 9mm blank in turn also sports a few grains of smokeless,which i hope will add to the gun burning way cleaner than on BP only.



    Over all cartridge length here is approx 90mm. Ie;cartridge in case is intended for my "hotrod",but in essence the same thinking applies for cartridges for a stocker.
    Ive up until now been of the absolute opinion that some sort of primer holder is of need,not so anymore. What ive basically done is superglue a sorts of "lid" to the main cartridge body and in turn just poked a hole for the primer in it.

    My main concern here being the integrity of the cap holder part. Any and all flex is bad news and might very well render a no go.



    This previously led me to the conclusion that some sort of holder is/was needed. As it turns out though the main body of the cartridge is plenty strong,meaning that it all comes down to that "lid" being stiff enough to handle the poke of the firing needle.
    That,of course,also means that the bigger the primer diameter the less the flex, naturally.

    Seing the mimic design vs a regular brass cartridge,just out of shrink sleeve,im happy to report that it seems like the main body withstands the movement imposed by a firing needle with ease.
    ..and see that 9mm blank is of dimensions where itll clear the rifling no worries.

    So.

    In the next couple of days ill try and make a few for the stocker of mine SANS powder. Ie;i WANT it to be as "lose" as it can be cause if the gun fires the primer no matter id say were home free.

    In essence?
    Well,this made the whole thing come together as simple as can be in my book.

  10. #70
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    Alright...



    I insisted on using 9mm blanks as primers. Thinking that...how hard can it be. Well,i was wrong. To a degree...



    The topic of how much this stuff will diminish...this is a 4:1 sleeve. Fast? Hm. Fast enough? Well,future will tell.



    By now ive had a few Chassepot in the door. It is very common for the hammers of them to bind or rub,and this HAS to be attended to. So did this one..
    In doing so,getting the hammer to run like butter i still had "no-fires" you wont believe,and it was to the point of me running around like a one legged chicken.
    So. To steam that hammer up a tad i opted to turn a shim on the lathe. 7mm inner diameter 10mm outer and a height of 7mm. Made for a rather profound difference in "hammer smack".



    Still though. Nothing but dents,and that was about it.





    This to show the impact/dents on the primers of these blanks. At this point i knew i was close....







    Huh. A small step for man,a giant leap for mankind. It wasnt until i turned a fixture out of aluminium i got this thing to work,but the REAL difference here IS that this works!
    Ie;lesson learned is that by forming cartridges out of shrink sleeve that registers on its shoulder...we can get ignition and as we DO get ignition this opens the door wide open as far as how and where we set a given bullet of CHOICE.

    Now.
    I opted to for instance glue two pieces of shrink sleeve together as a "bottom" for the cartridge in which i installed the blank. Nope..dents and no-fire.
    Ergo.
    What i guess is needed here is that we smack our heads together and start brainstorming for a combustible sort of "primer" holder.?
    What i have in mind to try out for size is the same solution used for the Dreyse. Ie,a roll out of paper.
    Question is if that might work?

  11. #71
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    Your ignition will almost certainly improve once you get the case packed tight with powder. Judging from your pushed out primers, it's obvious that the stern of your cartridge is flexing forward under impact. No different than firing a metallic cartridge in a chamber with excessive headspace.

    Even odds if the 9mm blanks will do anything to clean up your burn. I'm somewhat concerned that they may rapidly increase the burn to a detonation, so you should DEFINITELY fire the first one with a string from behind a wall (No doubt the shotgun primer would do, as that's common enough on the inline muzzle loaders). At best, you might get the bulk of the burn going on farther down the barrel. . .maybe. . .keeping the chamber cleaner.
    WWJMBD?

    "I'M MELLLLLLLLLLTING!" - Elphaba

  12. #72
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    Yeah.
    Theres like a ton of hurdles to handle getting this right before the bottom line. No argument what so ever.

    As for the primer/kicker,well theres only one way to find out. One benefit of using a 9mm blank is the added structural integrity it brings to the rear of the cartridge.

    Yep,all to aware of the come loose primer. ATM though thats besides the point as the prime objective here was to see if that cartridge out of shrink sleeve will be rigid enough to back and support the blank cartridge enough for it to go off,and it indeed is.

    We all "know" that BP needs to be compressed,to a minor or larger degree,and as such if theres room to spare it needs to be adressed with some sort of filler. All good i guess.

    But what about some sort of wad? Commonly used,but not so in reality with the Chasspot? Why is that? It would improve gas seal,it would make recoil more doable to handle and what not...

    Im currently looking for a postell Lyman mold. Have found one in 457,and seing how my one rifle at least slug 460.. Would i be more content with a 459 one?
    Well,thats what i need you guys to tell me really. Be aware that in such a case scenario i WILL fit some sort of wad in there too.

  13. #73
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    WWJMBD?

    "I'M MELLLLLLLLLLTING!" - Elphaba

  14. #74
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    FWIW.......this is a FASCINATING thread to follow. I don't have a Chassepot, but I do have an appreciation for the adaptive skill on display throughout this project.

    I played around with a SAECO 45 caliber 405 grain semi-spitzer (#021, IIRC) while I had a Ruger #1 in 45/70. I ran those to 1300 FPS most of the time, and they ranged better than the usual run of 400 grain-class 45 caliber bullets of this weight. There was a 20" dinger plate at 600 yards that I could keep ringing in calm conditions, which were not frequent in its location (Inyokern, CA/USA). It did not get squirrelly in the wind, just the usual drift values with the right-to-left tendencies of that wind-swept snake ranch. I also tried the bullets at higher velocities, and in a 7-1/4# rifle that got old in a hurry. At 1300 FPS (black-powder velocities), the bullet was tractable in recoil, even in that light single-shot.
    I don't paint bullets. I like Black Rifle Coffee. Sacred cows are always fair game. California is to the United States what Syria is to Russia and North Korea is to China/South Korea/Japan--a Hermit Kingdom detached from the real world and led by delusional maniacs, an economic and social basket case sustained by "foreign" aid so as to not lose military bases.

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9.3X62AL View Post
    FWIW.......this is a FASCINATING thread to follow. I don't have a Chassepot, but I do have an appreciation for the adaptive skill on display throughout this project.
    BELIEVE ME AL. . .Chassepottery is like any good train wreck: healthier to view from outside than from within.

    I had a summer where I went through a fascination with the atlatl - mankind's first mechanical "arm extension" used to increase the throwing force behind a spear. If it was all you knew, and you started on one when you were three, I expect you could become ****ed effective with one. In our ACTUAL reality however, two cousins and I spent 45 minutes taking turns with it on a mammoth-sized mulch pile trying to get a dart within a yard of our mark. At the end of it, my dry-humored, aeronautical engineer cousin paused and said:

    "Well, this has been fun. Let's go inside and invent the bow."

    Savor your drawn brass casings guys. . .SAVOR THEM!!!
    WWJMBD?

    "I'M MELLLLLLLLLLTING!" - Elphaba

  16. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigslug View Post
    Savor your drawn brass casings guys. . .SAVOR THEM!!!
    Oh, that I surely do, Erik. I never messed with an atlatl much, but I did some stunt work at age 12-13 with a home-made sling--that David vs. Goliath bit of kit from the Old Testament. I managed to avoid whacking myself in the head with the assembly while gaining skill and accuracy with the arrangement. 4-5 of us took this practice up, and once you became reasonably skillful with the sling its impact was no freakin' joke. The Romans used the sling to good effect from time to time, usually volley-launching dozens to hundreds at a time. The missiles used could be rocks gathered in the field, or iron or lead balls the size of a soldier's palm. Some of these missiles were cast with the impression "AD INFERNOS" or "AD STYXOS" ("Go to H--l") on their circumference. (The Gallic Wars, Julius Caesar.

    I did steer this text back on to casting......
    I don't paint bullets. I like Black Rifle Coffee. Sacred cows are always fair game. California is to the United States what Syria is to Russia and North Korea is to China/South Korea/Japan--a Hermit Kingdom detached from the real world and led by delusional maniacs, an economic and social basket case sustained by "foreign" aid so as to not lose military bases.

  17. #77
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    I guess the easy way here would be to copy the basic shape of the 460 WM and form them to Chassepot dimensions.
    Turn them yourself,make carbide tools for it.

    Just sans the "bottom end" of said cartridge. Fact is,for our Swedish purposes as far as legislation,youd get away with just drilling out the primer pocket and install the primer in such a manner that the cartridge in case wouldnt be gas tight. Ie;keep the extractor rim and what not...

    Thatd combat the ill of the original setup i guess and hand us a platform where the bullet would end up in exactly the same place every time.

    Then again,wheres the fun in that?



    Ontopic though. Ive conducted yet a few tests and the mere truth is that the shrink sleeve cartridges work. That simple. Time to bring some of the black gold,grease,a wad and a bullet to it i guess.

    Speaking of which,what effect is there to be expected from the use of a lets say 10mm (approx 1/2") wad from a recoil point of view-if any seing the load levels were at.

  18. #78
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    The British used wadding of various flavors in the Snider and Martini cartridges - both to serve as a gas check, and to reduce volume for lighter carbine loads. The British Muzzleloaders You Tube channel goes into this at some length.
    WWJMBD?

    "I'M MELLLLLLLLLLTING!" - Elphaba

  19. #79
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    Uhu.
    So did the Westley Richards Monkey tail,and i'm in the market for one right now.
    Mainly to be able to go back to back with the Chassepots i've got.
    Thinking this will make for an intersting comparsion.

  20. #80
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    So maybe my tablet ... but i got no pictures on page 4 if thete are any.
    WHEN ALL IS SAID AND DONE...MORE WILL BE SAID THEN DONE

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check