Post 64 Timeline help

[AntiqueSledMan]

Hello All,

I'm trying to put together a timeline on the Winchester 94 changes,
When did the switch from the Roll Pin on the Finger Lever Link Pin to a Solid Pin?
When did they switch from the Steel Butt Plate to the Phenolic Butt Plate?
When did the Carrier switch from Stamped to Cast?

Thanks for the info, AntiqueSledMan.

[pietro]

I'm trying to put together a timeline on the Winchester 94 changes

When did the switch from the Roll Pin on the Finger Lever Link Pin to a Solid Pin ? - 1970

When did they switch from the Steel Butt Plate to the Phenolic Butt Plate ? - Late 1960's

When did the Carrier switch from Stamped to Cast ? - 1970

FWIW.

Being loathe to waste material, the Winchester factory used the "parts bin" system, where they tossed newly-made/upgraded parts into the same bins as the older parts on hand, and pulled old/new parts randomly during assembly as req'd - which means that there can be a substantial SN overlap during any particular part's changeover.

.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Yes, it would be difficult to precisely answer your question. Pre-'64 guns were all good, solid components. Post-'64 guns had the lesser quality parts you have described. After lots of complaints and declining sales (lost some market share to Marlin) Winchester's quality started slowly improving again, but there's no definite date of overall improvement. And, of course, after Winchester Repeating Arms their successor was U.S. Repeating Arms, and today they're made in Japan. Mostly. The good news is that you can take one of the lesser quality rifles and build it into something better using better replacement parts. There are a couple of million of them in there that have cast rather than forged receivers, and there isn't much you can do about that, but the only really significant difference is that the cast receivers are difficult to refinish with conventional bluing methods.

[Bazoo]

My 94 was made in 1970, I just looked it up. Serial number 3388XXX. It has, a solid pin for the lever to base plate, a plastic butt plate, and what appears to be a cast/sintered carrier.

I have no complaints. I purchased it used and It doesnt appear to have any replacement parts and has never given me any trouble. It has the sintered metal receiver. The finish is worn on the receiver, but Its character for now, and I'll have it matte hard chromed one of these years.

My carrier looks like the third carrier shown here.

http://tincanbandit.blogspot.com/201...94-rifles.html

[AntiqueSledMan]

Hey Guys,

Thanks for the info, making my project tough.
I thought I could use this info for dating the Sears Labeled Winchesters.
Bazoo, my son has a 1969 built with Steel Butt Plate - Stamped Carrier - Solid Pin.

Thanks again, AntiqueSledMan.

[indian joe]

Hey Guys,

Thanks for the info, making my project tough.
I thought I could use this info for dating the Sears Labeled Winchesters.
Bazoo, my son has a 1969 built with Steel Butt Plate - Stamped Carrier - Solid Pin.

Thanks again, AntiqueSledMan.

I had one I believe was made in the late 1970's - it had one of their worse changes - flat mainspring still but they left off the little stirrup connection to the hammer so it became a friction fit and the end of the spring dragged across the recess in the hammer - later ones had a coil mainspring but I have no idea when that change came.

[AntiqueSledMan]

indian joe,

Looks like the coil spring came along about 1978.

[john.k]

The reciever is investment cast pearlitic ductile iron.....the pressed powder story refuses to die,despite it being impossible....... because a lot of simple firearm components are pressed/sintered powder.....Incidentally,the cast recievers have proven to be more wear resistant then the earlier forged .......they can be sucessfully blued with stainless steel solution,a company called "DuMore" produce a salt specially for cast 94s.....but who is going to buy a drum of salt to do one gun?

[Hick]

If you really want to dig into the details of the timeline try contacting Bert Hartman. he is associated in some way with the Winchester museum. If his e-mail hasn't changed it is win1885@msn.com. He was doing some major surveys several years ago and lots of us win 94 owners contributed data on our rifles. There's a thread back in 2009 on this forum where he was asking questions and people were responding. I contacted him in 2015 and he was still collecting data. He was tracking down by serial number exactly what parts were for different vintage rifles-- mostly focused on pre-64's.

[FergusonTO35]

My 94 rolled off the line the same year I did, 1978. I'll dig into it and see what all it has. The only defect I'm aware of on mine is the rear sight dovetail points to 11:00 whereas the front ramp is straight to 12. Doesn't matter as I use a receiver sight. As far as I can tell it has a forged receiver, the bluing looks the same as all the other parts.

[pietro]

Thanks for the info, making my project tough.

I thought I could use this info for dating the Sears Labeled Winchesters.

Bazoo, my son has a 1969 built with Steel Butt Plate - Stamped Carrier - Solid Pin.

FWIW, if you had disclosed your goal in your OP, this could have been addressed a couple of days ago.

Sears-branded (J.C.Whitney, Sears & Roebuck, etc) Winchester CF leverguns are ALL post-64 Winchester 94's, with your Son's rifle likely a transition gun, made when the solid pin was being phased in, but prior to the phasing in of the cast lifter/carrier.

Winchester's contract with Sears came to an end with Sears' discontinuance of the sale of all firearms in their stores in 1973.

.

[AntiqueSledMan]

pietro,

Please don't take this personal, but the reason I didn't mention Sears in the beginning is the fact that I don't need to hear bogus claims of someone having a pre-64 model & others claiming that Sears stopped selling firearms in 1973 (maybe 1983). I have pictures of a Ted Williams Model 100 with coil main spring which isn't supposed to be available until 1978. Out of the 1979 Sears Wish Book, only single shot shotguns & a .22 Semi Auto but Firearms just the same.

AntiqueSledMan.

[Mytmousemalibu]

Anyone know if a cast 94 receiver can be successfully rust blued? Specifically I have some of Andy's rust blue solution

[John Taylor]

The "new" 94s started in 1963, the new model 70 came out in 64.

[olafhardt]

I think that the reason that the receivers won't blue is that the alloys are essentially stainless. I have engine turned a few and they are beautiful. It is my opinion that the 94's made in the later 70's are the best made even better than the pre 64's.

[Texas by God]

I think that the reason that the receivers won't blue is that the alloys are essentially stainless. I have engine turned a few and they are beautiful. It is my opinion that the 94's made in the later 70's are the best made even better than the pre 64's.

Oh no you didn't..../popcorn

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[john.k]

I have read that the iron used has a high (by ductile iron standards) copper content as a grain refiner and heat treat modifier.This copper content affects solution bluing........As owners know,the recievers do rust,so I see no reason why they wouldnt rust blue......in fact I believe they can be.

[john.k]

I find it very strange that Marlin could change from a flat sided ,close fitting bolt to a round one with big enough gaps to let small rodents crawl in,without causing shock and horror,yet changes in the 94 cause such angst.I have a 1973 Marlin thats quite roughly finished compared to a 1973 Winchester.

[pietro]

.

FWIW, the Winchester Model receivers made from 1964, up to the introduction of the Model 94AE (Angle Eject) in 1982, were (except for the BigBore94's) all made of powdered metal using a sintering (google) process, and not forged steel like the pre-64 & post-82 Model 94 receivers.

These receivers were iron-plated so they could then receive various coatings, to appear as if they were blued, gold-plated, silver-plated, pewter-plated, brass-plated, black chromed, and faux case colored.

(The standard models were blued, the Model 94 Antique got the case colors, and various commemoratives got the remainder of the assorted finishes.)

These sintered receivers cannot be hot or cold/rust blued effectively, as the forged receivers can.

.

[bob208]

funny everyone getting themselves in a twist about the bluing on the post 64 receivers coming off. the old 94's were hardened then blued the bluing was flaking off while they were waiting to be shipped.